I would assume that before V2 the choirs sang mostly unaccompanied, while the people actively participated through listening and singing in their hearts.

Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott once made an observation which seems appropriate for this situation:

"Synthetic Scotch; Synthetic Commanders"

What prevented the west wall Cavaille-Coll installation?
How far back does Vatican Bank have problems?

For those of you who aren't fans of Star Trek, or don't remember the context for the reference, if someone wants to post a link to the episode Relics, here's your chance. If you don't want to go digging through dusty Trek archives, let me put the comment in layman's terms: when a simulacrum goes in St. Peter's the legs of the stool we are sitting on, here at CMAA are sawn off underneath us. Yet another liturgical/musical/creedal tomahawk can be thrown at us with the claim, "What.... are you trying to be more Catholic than the Pope? Are you a stuck-up elitist....[fill in the rest of the laundry list]?

"What.... are you trying to be more Catholic than the Pope? Are you a stuck-up elitist....[fill in the rest of the laundry list]?

That might have held water in the days when the pope was unquestionably Catholic. Elitist? How often we seem to seek the approval of people we should seldom care about in the first place. As for the Allen, it is not like St. Peter's couldn't afford the real deal. They take enough from all of us that it shouldn't have been a problem.

Just speculating on your statement that the pope is Catholic. To what degree and how sure are you of that? A better question might be is the pope orthodox?

More questions. Is the Allen an organ? Does it have gender-identity issues? How catholic can an Allen be? Perhaps it is not an orthodox organ of the true faith.

Deacon Fritz,

As I'm sure you're aware, a pipe organ can be revoiced, or ranks can be added to it.

Yes, I would think that the two options you propose are rather like having the proposed oculectomy.

There is a great moral and paedagogical difference between playing an organ and amplifying it (a dumb thing to do), and playing a fake organ, a simulacrum, digital or otherwise. If the existing organ does not fill the needs of the basilica, the obvious solution is to add on to it or invest in a larger one. It seems in this instance that the only concern is volume of sound, not necessarily quality of sound. And, of course, the 'reputable' purveyor of organ simulacra is all too happy to provide the required number of speakers to produce the desired number of decibels of simulated organ sounds from his organ simulater, his simulacrum.

"Unfortunately, the pope, at that time, never responded to Cavaille-Coll's proposal."

Probably a misreading of the situation. Ebrecht's book apparently says that it was a political dispute with the Italian state that scuppered the project. In 1875 the Pope had no temporal authority as the Vatican City state had not been established, and St Peter's was clearly in Italy (then a 14 year old state).

About 10 years ago our church purchased a brand new Allen organ with all the fake sounds. We had an organist at the time who liked to play instrumentals at communion using the "strings" and then the "trumpet" and then a "guitar" verse, etc. I could scarcely keep from laughing watching the parishioners snap around and stare into the choir loft each time a new sound made its appearance.

Our friend and colleague the Andy Motyka has played Mass there. I've summoned him to this thread to give his impressions.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=776097645911711&id=286095441578603

Well, the pipe organ there is far from the ideal... and I would have never understood the volume of space had I not been there in person, but the organ (not a small one at that) barely fills the area behind the crossing. There were 200-300 at mass, and the organ was played very aggressively (wide open), and I was sitting right by the choir, and the sound was just lost in the space. I can’t imagine how many ranks would be required to fill the whole space—it is massive. It would need to be in quite a few locations also—which I’m sure would make maintenance and tuning fun.

Marc

Immense as it may be, are we actually supposed to believe that the only or best solution was an 'electrophone'? Anyone who believes that, including he, she, or they who made the decision, has been hoodwinked. Serve up yet another victory for the father of lies.
Screwtape is doubtless in a state of delirium and is doing handstands.

...in 15-20 years.

I have observed that many nowadays no longer think in terms of decades and centuries. This is sad and a sad mark on what has become of our civilisation.
Many people now don't expect anything to last beyond a decade or two, if that. They expect stuff to be outmoded, replaced by the latest 'technological' breakthrough.

Craftsmanship? It can hardly be found or heard of outside an organbuilder's premises and a diminishing few craftsmen of this, that and the other hither, thither and yon - such as luthiers and cabinetmakers, and such. Why, even the idea of craftsmanship has become besmirched. Even makers of organ simulacra, organ simulaters, and electrophones would have us believe in their deceptive advertisements that they 'build' the simulations that they call organs. (As if installing some bundles of wires and tuned buzzers in what is made to look like an organ console, and arranging a cleverly hidden battery of speakers was 'building' and organ.) Their 'things' don't really need to last more than two or three decades because it is expected that people will then want to replace their dated items with the latest, most advanced technology.

Indeed, for some (quite a few, actually), they don't really care whether their instrument is a real organ or not - what thrills them IS what they perceive to be, or choose to call, a technological marvel. And if it's 'digital', well one just couldn't ask for more - at least not yet.

In their articles and videos marketing the installation, they insinuate that Vatican officials selected it after a lengthy search process. What a joke.

Like there are no digital organ builders in Italy. Right!

.

Is this akin to Google "donating" computers to schools, or something similar?

Here's a photo of the newly installed instrument:

It's interesting that they apparently had relatively modest objectives and didn't give the Basilica their most elaborate console. At least I assume this isn't the top-of-the-line model.

They really should have made the cart match the console...

Simulacrum a la cart.

It might be that Allen tried to follow the desires of the pontiff in avoiding ostentation (i.e. beauty) and decorum. Just a thought with a dash of sarcasm.

I wonder if it has digital reverb?

Aren't the toes occupied with the pedals?

Carol,


I cringe to know the answer to the question. "Is the Pope Catholic?" used to be rhetorical question intended to convey how stupid a question is. It isn't such a stupid question anymore, hence my reason for fear at the possible answer to your question. Ignorance, just at present, is bliss.