"We have been told not to do the Gloria if it is spoken. It must be sung."

Well, that's a new one to my ears/eyes! Is that "rule" used more to make it sung, or to omit it (could be read either way). Seems to confuse the Gloria with the Gospel Acclamation...

We must sing it and may not omit it. I'm OK with that!

We have been told not to do the Gloria if it is spoken. It must be sung.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pocYtSWoJgM

Seriously folks, I am a bit surprised that anyone doesn't sing the Gloria. Singing it has been our practice for at least the last 50 years.

Yes, Kevin, that's kind of the idea around here as well. The reason given for not singing the Gloria last summer was "so the people can learn the words." Of course, they'd learn it better if they were singing it, but that's what we were told.

Spoken Gloria in the Summer must have been something they suggested in the 60's in seminary. The priests I knew of that generation all wanted to do that back in WV.

I haven't heard it recited except at a school mass some years ago.

His Grace left many members of his predecessor’s staff in place.

Huge mistake, given his somewhat notorious predecessor.

This is encouraged by the diocesan worship office and given support by many of the presbyters.

This is a surprising. The bishop there was with us for a number of years, and that wasn't his practice when he was here. However, East Tennesseans are a contrary and individualistic lot. We do as we do and have done, and those who wish to do otherwise are encouraged to go elsewhere. We are not changing. Still...surprising.

Surprising because it is false. The worship office specifically instructs directors/priests NOT to omit the Gloria.

@Adam...rationale. Sorry...I had not had my morning bourbon yet.

@DougS...I can name 10 parishes that omit the Gloria in the summer. And yes, with the change of your wife as liturgy director, I would hope that has changed.

DougS, thanks. I thought that sounded a bit out of character.

As I have mentioned before, in the summer, Father omits completely the Gloria on Sundays, and the summer is always Ordinary time so it should at least be recited...
Preferably chanted or sung.

I try to argue that that can be more efficient than those contemporary metrical settings, but he thinks "you make the mass as short as possible and more will come because they don't seem to be 'wasting' as much time".

I know.

You could almost consider some elements of my parish secular in their entireties.

Spoken Gloria in the Summer must have been something they suggested in the 60's in seminary. The priests I knew of that generation all wanted to do that back in WV.

Could it be because... wait for it... the choir isn't there in the summer?

I agree with Stimson. It helps to have a musical rhythm into which the words fit. It’s why I recall the Marian antiphons of Lent and Advent after one or two attempts at the seasonal changes, and I think once learned, most people don’t forget the other two.

Yes, Charles, leaving old people on in Louisville was a mistake.

I’m thankful some of this weird stuff is news to me...

Let's get back on the initial topic. Noeisdas started the discussion with this question:

If we were to start with singing one of the propers at mass, which would be the most important?

Are there any more comments on this question?

This omitting the Gloria thing just shows how Calvinist we really are in this country. Disgusting!

Let's get back on the initial topic.

In the "stuffed Mass" modem, start with the Communio.
*There is in common usage "meantime" between the "Non dignus..." and the congregational distribution. The quire ought to accompany that with the appropriate Proper. Then they can communicate as the hymn is taken up by the organ/cantor/whomever.
*If there is no distinctive environment for a protracted procession or a circumambulated one, the Introit/hymn combination isn't uniformly configured, and one of those items will interrupt flow.
*Given the "realpolitick" of the modern Offertory (hymn of the day, other hymn/song, choral offertory, organ, Offertorio...) the use of the Proper can be mitigated according to a perceived demand by TPTB. Yes I know, sing the Mass, but we're discussing options.

I've seen it done all three ways, and also a fourth way: mixed schola (IS OUTRAGE!!!). Yes, cantor alone is an acceptable way for singing the proper: I do this frequently if the choir is not present for Mass. Consider this: the Responsorial Psalm is technically proper text, and a cantor usually intones that by himself, so cantors are already singing propers.

I use both choir and/or cantors to sing them, depending on the mass. I only have the choir present for one Sunday mass, so I have cantors for the others.

I would suggest introducing all the propers at once, but sung to a simple Gregorian psalm tone. That will get the faithful used to having Biblical texts sung at the Mass by the choir.

Gradually, they can be sung to more ornate melodies such as SEP, eventually even replacing the opening hymn they are probably used to. Perhaps you should aim for using the Graduale Romanum after a few years, in which the people can sing the psalm verse in English. But this takes time, a lot of it, or you risk ruffling feathers.

As for the Gloria, I was travelling this past Christmas and found myself at a very affluent Catholic church in Florida on Christmas morning. They did indeed sing the Gloria, but not the one in the Missal. They sang the English version of the French carol "Les Anges dans nos Campagnes" instead. Because it is a booming burb parish I doubt the bishop would intervene.

I used to think that having mixed men and women singing chant would cloud the texture, but I have since been convinced otherwise. The Madeleine Choir in Salt Lake routinely sings the Introit in octaves, and it works. I would still have a cantor or either men or women (or children) sing the psalm verse, for some contrast. Besides, many of us take what we can get - the most important thing is to have a group of proficient readers.

I have found the problem with incense is Roman incense. It smells like burning rubber. When our associate pastor changed to a quality eastern incense, the complaints disappeared.

Difference in place, I suppose, but that wouldn't work for us. I don't use the GR but sing the Missal Propers. We have some seasonal Latin, but year round might just get Latin cancelled for the seasons when we do sing it. I don't want to provoke a backlash and the support for more Latin just isn't there. Traditional hymns are heavily supported by both congregation and clergy, so they are not going anywhere. They love those powerful Anglican-style hymns. I have to use Propers along with hymns, not in place of them. BTW, I have been in this position for 17 years following this approach. Pushing for too much more would put me in the ranks of the unemployed, I'm afraid - or at least provoke issues I don't have time to deal with. Not worth it.

My pastor likes those hymns and he loves it when I crank up the mighty Schantz on the last verse. No problems there.

@Chris
Yes, well they are servants, and I think that they can forget that sometimes, as those who provide contemporary (Schutte, DeBryun, etc.) music for worship. Being a servant of the liturgy means providing what was written in documents. They sometimes don't do that.

"If the deciding factor for whether your parishioners come to Mass at your parish is whether or not an entrance hymn is sung, then they're not really committed to your parish in anything but a superficial way."

A pastor with an eye on the collection plate might interpret it differently....