Seeking suggestions for Gloria in English
  • DogwoodSouthDogwoodSouth
    Posts: 16
    I know that the Gloria made its reappearance at Christmas, so this question may appear to be a bit tardy, but in our parish, we'll soon change the Gloria setting for "Ordinary Time." At this time, we are doing Poterack's Psalm-Tone Mass Gloria (Adoremus Hymnal). I want to move to another Gloria for OT b/c: 1)to mark the change in liturgical season and 2) because, to be 100% honest, the Psalm-Tone setting is very subdued. I think it may be more appropriate for a penetential season like Lent.

    Here is my situation: Our parish is the only parish in a small town in the deep South (the next closest parish is 30+ miles away). Although we are in the buckle of the Bible Belt in a state with very few Catholics per capita, we are a university town so we have a descent number of parishioners and many, many guests on most Sundays. Ever since the early 1970s, this parish has been on the forefront of liturgical innovation (though, as we are Southern, in a somewhat conservative fashion) and the music in the past 20 years have never strayed far from the "comfort diddies" of Dufford, Foley, Haas, Hurd, Haugen, Schutte and the like. So, under the direction of our current pastor, as we've moved over the past to years toward a more balanced music program which utilizes the musical possibilities of 2,000 years instead of 30, there has been some (albeit small) protest.

    But I still feel as though I'm walking on eggshells. We are loosely following a policy of music selection that leans toward more formal settings for actions closest to the Eucharist. So, at every Mass (even the "College Mass"!), we now chant the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei in Latin. We also try to use the Introit as found in Tietze's Introit Hymns as often as possible. But (many) people want a "joyful" Gloria.

    We still do this ordinary in English. Besides dipping back into St. Louis Jesuits Mass, the Mass of Creation or something equally terrible, does anyone have any other suggestions for settings of the Gloria in English which might be a nice "medium" between chant and pop?

    Thanks in advance for the help!
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,225
    I'll snark first: there is NO Gloria which is 'suitable for Lent,' for the obvious reason...

    Honest suggestion: what about the Gloria from Mass VIII (Chant/Latin)? Apprehensible, not lengthy. And so long as you have the Adoremus, look at Shenk's Gloria in the same volume. Metered, but nicely tailored to the English text.
  • Brian Michael Page
    Posts: 154
    Well, you wouldn't have to worry about "subdued" settings for Lent, since there is NO gloria for Advent or Lent (except for Solemnities - Immcaculate Conception/Annuntiation)

    As for other gloriae, I recommend (amongst the through-composed settings):
    John Lee's "Congregational Mass" (#278 in Worship III)
    Carroll Thomas Andrews' "A New Mass for Congregations" (also in Worship III)
    Jan Vermulst's "Mass for Christian Unity" (the 1964 text appears in all editions of People's Mass Book up to 1984, however, the 2003 PMB has a new version of the same gloria which adapted the 1970 text quite nicely)

    I've done Alexander Peloquin's "Gloria of the Bells" when I absolutely have to go with a responsorial gloria.
    BMP
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    The Heritage Gloria by Alstott is pretty easy to learn and has no traces of pop music. It is pretty ubiquitous but I think it has the requisite dignity.

    As much as my buddy BMP likes the Bells Gloria, I have some problems with it. It gets a little tricky towards to the end (adding the "Glory to God" interjections). I just had a rather unpleasant experience with it.

    I can second the Schenk responsorial Gloria (from the Modal Mass) if you must use one.

    Proulx's Community Mass Gloria is a good one, but not easy.
  • DogwoodSouthDogwoodSouth
    Posts: 16
    dad29 and Brian: Sorry for the slip (re: Gloria in Lent)... Was typing too fast on my way out the door and about 15 mins. later (away from the computer) it hit me.. ha ha.

    Everyone: Thanks for the suggestions!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Here is an English Gloria and this one.
  • henry
    Posts: 242
    There's a nice Gloria (in English) in the Mass of St. Agnes (CanticaNova Press) that I'm thinking of using. You might want to look at that.
    Henry
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,039
    I have found this Gloria to be very interesting on first reading, though I have never used it at mass. It was composed by Jeff Ostrowski of Chabanel Psalms fame. I would be interested to know if anyone has sung it at mass.

    http://chabanelpsalms.org/CHABANEL_PSALM_TOME/WEDDING/4033_gloria_goupil_ORG.pdf

    Sam Schmitt
  • AJ in Toronto
    Posts: 28
    How about the English version of Gloria XV in By Flowing Waters? It's quite straight forward and sounds effective alternating between male and female voices.
  • Cantor
    Posts: 84
    Proulx Community Mass - it stays fresh even after repeated use. The middle is a bit goofy, though, because it was originally written to be sung by the choir alone. The congregation part there was an afterthought. I will be really sorry to lose this one when the new Missal translation comes. Just be sure to take it at a sturdy-and-moving tempo; it kicks when it moves, but when it plods it’s just deplorable.

    The Andrews one is nice, but I’ve never used it.

    If you’re ok with a refrain the Mass of the Angels and Saints by Steven Janco (GIA) is pretty nice, too.

    Judy Hylton has a Gloria with OCP that’s not too bad. Not great, but ok.
  • Skitalets
    Posts: 25
    The 1982 Hymnal (Episcopal Church) has a few very nice Gloria settings -- it's the same text as in the missal.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    It does change the text, but I do have an affinity for the Jones' Gloria, Mass of Compassion Gloria by Ken Caenedo isn't that bad either. I've always liked the modal gloria in the Collegeville Hymnal and Celebrating the Eucharist by Tobias Colgan, very easy to learn.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    I would add that I second the ones above. If you're choirs got the skill, the Festival Gloria by Proulx is AWESOME! The Gloria from the German Mass (Schubert, arr. Proulx) is nice too, very easy to pick up. Also by Vermulst is the People's Mass Gloria.
  • Dave
    Posts: 64
    Jan Vermulst's Gloria from "People's Mass" is good as long as it's taken at a brisk tempo. I like Henry Papale's Gloria from the "Melodic Mass" in the 1966 People's Mass Book, but, unfortuantely, the translation was changed around 1970. I vouch for William Mathias' "Glory to God" from the 1982 Hymnal, though that would take a lot of work with congregations.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    By the way, on the Psalm tone Glorias linked above, we have found them incredibly flexible in their effect. Whether the Gloria is exuberant and joyful or contemplative and solemn very much on how it is intoned and directed. It can go either way, which reflects the musical genius of the Psalm tone approach.
  • SamuelDorlaque
    Posts: 318
    I would second the "Mathias" setting, also the "New Plainsong Mass" of David
    Hurd wears well- the Gloria is particularly bright and singable. We use the
    Gloria from John Lee's "Congregational Mass" and for a "refrain-type" use the
    "Melodic Gloria" of Fr. Jim Chepponis.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,709
    You are welcome to use this one. It is from my Missa Brevis I (English Version). It can be used with or without choir, and with or without organ. For registration I use 8' flute or diapason, and an 8', 16' pedal of the same. Right now there is a Cathedral in Canada that utilizes the entire setting and I have worked with them to refine parts. But I am always open to comments, so please send them along if you have any. Although this Gloria is mixed meter, it is intended to be more like plainchant where the words are dictating the meter phrase by phrase.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    The chanted English ettings have a lot going for them. The 3/4, rumpety-tumpety rhythm of much of the ICEL translation makes it difficult to find a good metrical setting. I wonder if the new translation will be any improvement?
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 860
    Attila Jagodits said
    How about the English version of Gloria XV in By Flowing Waters? It's quite straight forward and sounds effective alternating between male and female voices.

    Thank you for this endorsement. I too love the alternating male and female voices.

    May I also invite everyone to look at the Mozarabic Gloria (BFW 603) and the Ambrosian Gloria (BFW 608)?
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 400
    I think that "Psalm tone" approaches to vernacular Glorias are probably the way to go at the moment. After all - the other settings may not lend themselves to editing when the new translations of the Roman Missal are issued.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    Isn't the first sentence of the Gloria in the new translation: Glory to God in the Highest and on Earth Peace to People of goodwill? Seems kinda a mouthfull.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    I'll weigh in with a vote for the Andrews "Gloria." It's the default for me in my current situation (with Worship III and Gather 2nd ed. in the pews).

    The John Lee setting is OK insofar as it uses a Gregorian-based formula, and is flexible for various applications of "alternatim."

    The Judy Hylton was the default in my first full-time position as we were enslaved by OCP's "Busting Bread" music resource.

    I haven't done the Vermulst "People's Mass" Gloria for a long while, but I recall that when I played it, I did some rather naughty things with the harmonization to avoid a certain degree of monotony.

    I personally think that any refrain-based Gloria is to be avoided for two reasons: 1) they always sound redundant and "sing-songy" and 2) they make the singing of the Gloria seem more important than the Sanctus by virtue of the unnecessary length. The "Gloria of the Bells" comes to mind, with it's obssesively unpredictable "Glory to God!" exclamations that are sung by the choir in the last section.

    I would love to teach the Gloria from the Proulx "Community Mass" to the congregation, but with the coming liturgical text re-translations, it might be a waste of time.

    The thought occurs to me however that because the pending translations will be closer to the Episcopal Hymnal 1940 language, the Willan settings, among others from that hymnal, might just become fair game.
  • bsven
    Posts: 20
    Dear Mr. Tucker, I like your Gloria's. May I print them off and reproduce them and paste them on my people's hymnals? Should I pay someone? I've been looking for an English chant Gloria for awhile. Also, do you have an English chant Sanctus and Agnus Dei in your coffers?
    On the subject of English hymn-style Glorias, we use the Hylton, which the people knew when I arrived, and has the virtue of being in the hymnal, and works just ok. I taught them the Proulx, (along with the other Proulx parts of the ordinary) and they GREATLY PROTESTED, but got over it in time and now are singing it. I have secretly believed that the reason this Gloria is not used more is that the accompaniment is more difficult. But if you lead well from the organ, they eventually get it. Believe me, if my people can do it, it's fair game for all humanity. One more thing: Father forbid me to teach the people the Missa de A. Gloria, but after petitioning on my part, he said the choir could sing it on feast days. But, after some time of this, I snuck the number from the hymnal up on the board, and pointed it out to them before Mass, and they have begun singing it. Does this count as disobedience? Also, about the new translation: Fr. Samuel Weber has translated the chant tones to fit the text for the new translation, for the whole Mass--dialogues, acclamations, ordinaries-- and it looks good.
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    Civil Disobediance...
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    bsven, of course you can use them. Actually, here is a plan: print up 1,000,000 and put them on windshields of cars parked at rock concerts and the like.
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    lol Jeffrey!
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    I've printed out several thousand of the "FAQ's On Sacred Music" and am planning on putting one on every car during the Sunday 5:30 Mass when our "Contemporary Ensemble" (read, group of narcissistic, 50-something, plastic banana, good-time rock and roller types) leads the music.

    Now, THERE's civil disobedience for ya!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Ah, yes. Reminds of the time I confronted a pastor with the following: "What do I have to pay you for four decent hymns every Sunday." Ah youth! I think I was a mere teen. I learned that some strategies are better than others.
  • bsven
    Posts: 20
    You all are solace for a weary soul. Maybe the next best thing to prayer is to laugh our guts out. Mr. Tucker, you made no mention of an English Chant Sanctus and Agnus Dei.
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 860
    bsven,

    Please consider the English chant Sanctuses and Agnus Dei's in By Flowing Waters: Chant for the Liturgy (Collegeville: The Liturgical Press, 1999).
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I've been somewhat timid about bossing around my boss when it comes to the liturgy. I refer to the penitential rite. I don't find it my place to tell him which rite to use, but once I said this: "I really want you to use the Kyrie for the penitential rite throughout this season. I'm not comfortable telling you what to do in Mass, nor am I comfortable asking you. But I am comfortable beating you senseless with a hymnal if you don't do it." I have considered distributing some material, but the CMAA brochures seem a bit wordy. Maybe I'll come up with something shorter. We've had a few visiting cantors for funerals, seems like a good idea to make them "required reading" for the visitors.

    I second Ford's recommendation of the BFW Mass settings. I haven't expressed my love of BFW, mostly because if I did I'd just turn into a raving fan. But it is an excellent resource.
  • AJ in Toronto
    Posts: 28
    I second Gavin's praise of By Flowing Waters. I belong to one those aforementioned dreaded contemporary ensembles, but through By Flowing Waters have been able to introduce chant to our Parish. This Lent, we will be singing Communion antiphons which I'm sure haven't been heard in our church for over 20 years!
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 966
    Just received my copy of BFW this week -- have been happily reading through it and waiting in anticipation for the CD I also requested to assist me in how to use it. I must say I like it a great deal so far. Plus... the copyright provision seems very generous and easy to use.
  • Paul F. Ford
    Posts: 860
    Janet,

    I got your note and will burn your copy of the 35' demonstration DVD this coming weekend. The new semester has started and I am up to my eyes in alligators trying to launch my courses: ecclesiology/mariology, liturgical music survey, and theology of C. S. Lewis.

    I am glad you like the copyright provisions: The proper credit for each song is available in a .doc file on my website, so you don't have to figure it out.

    Blessings,
    Paul
  • JulesVanNuffel
    Posts: 126
    DogwoodSouth,

    You might try these:

    http://chabanelpsalms.org/CATHOLIC_WEDDINGS/

    Or this one:

    http://chabanelpsalms.org/CHABANEL_PSALM_TOME/MISCELLANEOUS/4182_parallelmass.pdf
    http://www.sjnmusic.com/the_parallel_mass_project.html
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Sorry to resuscitate an old thread here, friends, but I was curious if anyone knows about the availability of Gloria XV or VIII set to the current English text, and in square note notation…? Thanks.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    The Glory To God Project at www.sjnmusic.com has training files as well as a version in unison chant and the original SATB.

    It's designed to get the choir singing and recognizing that all music is based upon groups of two and three (building their abilities as far as Gregorian Chant) and to serve as a transition Glory To God with the new text immediately upon approval...
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    The website looks like it's been well-updated since I last visited it, Noel… very nice!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    Thanks! For those into such things, we used to use DreamWeaver (pricey and tough....) and now use the Mac program, Sandvox by Karelia Software. (inexpensive and very powerful)
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    Here's Gloria XIII adapted to English (old ICEL) text.
    Gloria 13 modern notation.pdf
    34K
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Wonderful, Bruce… thank you! (Now, I'm almost inclined to download and learn Gregorio, and convert this to square notes myself!)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,182
    Here's a square-note version from Gregorio. Is it all right with you, Bruce, to post this adaptation of your setting?
    gloria-xiii-english-ford-main.pdf
    218K
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    My gosh… ask, and ye shall receive, indeed! Amazing. Thank you, chonak (while we both await Bruce's response)!

    Okay… not that beggars should be choosers here… but how 'bout Gloria VIII and/or XV? Anyone?

    Thank you -- both of you -- so much again!
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    Mark M:

    I have it in square notes. Here it is.
    Gloria 13 Gregorian notation.doc
    16K
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    My gosh again… talk about manna from heaven! (Unfortunately though, Bruce, the .doc file isn't working too well.)
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    Mark M.:

    I stupidly sent it as a Word document, which would appear as gibberish unless you had the Meinrad fonts installed on your PC.

    Here it is in .pdf.
    Gloria 13 Gregorian notation.pdf
    25K
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Here is the St. Meinrad Kyriale which has settings of the current ordinary texts as adapted from Gregorian Masses I, XI, XII, XV, XVII and XVIII (in square note notation). They are set by Fr. Columba Kelly and can be downloaded freely.
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,185
    Adam: Thanks for this.

    Possible error in Dismissal 6: C-clef perhaps should be on the top line instead of its current placing. (Although I will say that it sounds oddly appealing, though definitely unfamiliar to modern ears, as it's currently set.)
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Absolutely fabulous! (I think I knew about the St. Meinrad Kyriale, but for some reason it didn't come to mind when I asked my question a few days ago.)

    On the St. Meinrad work, I see that the text alternates between regular and boldface. Is this to indicate cantor and congregation response, respectively? (And if so, is there precedent for that?) Or are the different emphases simply there to clarify the text, phrase-by-phrase?
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Aristotle: Dismissal 6 looks correct--Did you mean to reference another one? I'm not as familiar with all of them as I am with 6, but could check with Fr. Kelly to see if there is an error.

    Mark: Yes, the regular vs. boldface breaks up the text to be sung alternately between two groups, which has great historical precedence. This could be between schola and congregation, between two scholas, between men and women, etc. I think that it would also be just fine to sing straight through as well.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Adam,

    amazing!
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