Liturgy is not "The Work of the People"
  • This post is a criticism of the "elements of the Mass" videos coming out from the Liturgical Institute (at least, the first one). Bear with me for a minute.

    I still remember Maxwell Johnson, in his Church Year course at Notre Dame, saying "if you only remember one thing from this class, remember that the Liturgy is not "the work of the people!" Yep, I remember - although it was not clear to me at the time why this was so important. And he was not the only professor who harped on this point.

    But for the record, leitourgia, in its original classical use, did not mean "work of the people" (as in: initiated or enacted by the public) - rather, it meant a public work, or a work done on behalf of the people. For instance, the Liddell classical dictionary has:

    A.public service performed by private citizens at their own expense, And.4.42, Lys.21.19, etc.; λ. ἐγκύκλιοι ordinary, i.e. annual, liturgies, D.20.21; λειτουργίαι μετοίκων, opp. πολιτικαἰ, ib.18.
    II. any public service or work, PHib. 1.78.4 (iii B.C.), etc.; ὁ ἐπὶ τῶν λειτουργιῶν τεταγμένος, in an army, the officer who superintended the workmen, carpenters, etc., Plb.3.93.4; “οἱ ἐπί τινα λ. ἀπεσταλμένοι” Id.10.16.5: generally, military duty, UPZ15.25 (pl., ii B.C.).
    2. generally, any service or function, “ἡ πρώτη φανερὰ τοῖς ζῴοις λ. διὰ τοῦ στόματος οὖσα” Arist.PA650a9, cf. 674b9, 20, IA 711b30; “φιλικὴν ταύτην λ.” Luc.Salt.6.
    3. service, ministration, help, 2 Ep.Cor.9.12, Ep.Phil.2.30.
    III. public service of the gods, “αἱ πρὸς τοὺς θεοὺς λ.” Arist.Pol.1330a13; “αἱ τῶν θεῶν θεραπεῖαι καὶ λ.” D.S.1.21, cf. UPZ17.17 (ii B.C.), PTeb.302.30 (i A.D.), etc.; the service or ministry of priests, LXX Nu.8.25, Ev.Luc.1.23.

    Why did the church take this word specifically to describe Divine Worship? The Catechism puts it succinctly:

    “The word “liturgy” originally meant a “public work” or a “service in the name of/on behalf of the people.” In Christian tradition it means the participation of the people of God in “the work of God.” Through the liturgy Christ, our redeemer and high priest, continues the work of our redemption in, with, and through his Church.” (CCC 1069)

    What is "liturgy"? The "work of God." What is the "work"? Redemption. Who does the work? Christ (the whole Christ, head and members). Yet some people insist on calling salvation the "work of the people." I was disappointed last week to see a beautifully produced series of videos from the Liturgical Institute kicked off, and cross-linked on the New Liturgical Movement: http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2015/11/new-series-of-videos-about-liturgy-from.html
    The first video: defining the word liturgy. Fr. Martis leads off by saying there are three "nuances" to the word liturgy. The first? "Work of the People!" I was kind of amazed that this passed without any comment - perhaps buried behind all the All Saints/All Souls posts. But it also occurred to me that there might be some here that do not see the deep problems with the "work of the people" definition. "Work of the people" is primarily an ideological re-imagining of an ancient word; an overreaction to the perceived problem of clericalism in liturgical history; the people "taking back" their rightful role. This simple, subtle misunderstanding is one of the root causes of liturgical decay and abuse post Vatican II - it is a critical "fork in the road", if you will. The "work of the people" is something we conceive, create, enact. The "work of God" is something pre-existing and ongoing that we perceive, receive, participate in. The "work of the people" formulation is insidious because it sounds positive, and it subtly twists a truth of liturgy: that the liturgy is the duty of the laity, the right of the baptized. Certainly it is, and we can even say, as the documents do, that the faithful have a right to participate fully, actively, consciously. What we can never say is that the liturgy itself is the "work of the people." And in fact the Church never says this (any more than she says "transsignification is a nuance in our understanding of "Eucharist"). To sum up:

    1 - "The work of the people" is a wrong definition of "liturgy", in classical usage
    2 - "The work of the people" is a wrong definition of "liturgy" in early Church usage
    3 - The Church herself, even in 20th-century documents, never uses the phrase "work of the people" (thus: "work of the people" is a wrong definition of "liturgy" in its present usage as well)
    4 - Rather than clearing up this popular misunderstanding of a word, we have a beautiful series of videos that actually leads off by listing "work of the people" as the FIRST "nuance" in defining the word.
    5 - How are we supposed to teach people how the Church actually understands this word (a pretty darn important one, at that; the "source and summit of the Christian life" after all) - how can I compete with production values and a swelling piano score?
    6- The folks at Liturgical Institute should know better, and I hope those on this forum know better.
    7 - It's Monday, and I'm grumpy.
  • I always find it difficult to understand how anybody could create a purportedly Catholic resource that speaks contrary to the catechism.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,164
    Michael, unlike you, I am always amazed when somebody actually creates a Catholic resource that is true to the faith.
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • I think it is also important to consider the intended audience. The Liturgical Institute is not targeting liturgical scholars with 2 minute videos. They are targeting people on twitter and Facebook who have never heard anything about liturgy other than what Fr. Bob has told them from the pulpit. People have been told that the liturgy is about hand-holding, singing familiar ditties, and dont-get-too-formal-but-pray-to-God-in-your-own-words.

    As a student of the Liturgical Institute, I can attest that the presentation of the Sacred Liturgy as fundamentally the action of God, manifested in the Paschal Mystery, is the starting point for every class. The Liturgy is not taught as a humanity or a history, as it is presented at other institutes. It is the work of God for His people and through His Church.

    There are monasteries that don't chant the Mass or Hours daily but they do at the Liturgical Institute. There is an atmosphere there that what we handle in the Liturgy is truly sacred and that the New Evangelization requires its full renewal. I dare say the Institute is playing a strong role in promoting the "New Liturgical Movement"--which is not grounded in a complete rejection of the conciliar reform, but in fidelity to the Church and her wisdom and primarily in the guidance of the Holy Spirit. These videos, while they are small and they are imperfect, are doing a large task of putting into the minds of the average Catholic the concept that Liturgy is more than a gathering. I think that is a good thing. I think that is laudable even.
  • The point of the video was to start where people thought they were (it acknowledges that the "work of the people" concept is what most think of the liturgy), and then, tactfully, expands the concept to really mean the work of God and of Christ on behalf of the people. Watch it again. He is pretty clear on that, IMHO.
  • awilliams and RS:

    It is precisely because of the intended non-specialist audience that it is so important to get this fine point right. I have often, in conversations and presentations been able to explain quite quickly to lay people why "work of the people" is a wrong definition - it's really not a hard concept to get across. And the anthropocentric implications of the phrase are also easy to explain to a lay person (in other words, "why the definition matters in practical terms"). And it is precisely because of the reputation of the Liturgical Institute that it is so important that this organization gets this simple, basic definition of the word right. Had the video come from...certain other sources, I would not even bother to comment.

    I just watched this for the third time, to be sure I'm not mis-representing. Let me be clear:

    The video presents a false definition ("work of the people") as one of the three nuances we need to understand, in order to understand the word liturgy.
    Rather than saying "liturgy is often taken to mean "work of the people", but what the word actually means in ancient use and the mind of the Church is...", Fr. Martis says "liturgy is not SIMPLY the "work of the people". Even in a purely academic sense, it would not be a good idea to list a wrong definition of a word as something we need to accept when defining the word. What compounds this problem is that "work of the people", as a widespread popular misunderstanding, is fraught with at least as many political and ideological difficulties as "spirit of Vatican II." You can't simply ignore all that baggage, and present this wrong definition alongside two correct definitions as if it were just as legitimate.

    The problem is not that one correct reading of the word ("work of the people") needs to be balanced with other nuances. The problem is that "work of the people" is not a correct definition of "liturgy" in the first place. While the intentions behind this video may be the best, the finished product only muddies the waters in this critical matter.
  • Let me put this another way:

    What is the Liturgy?
    The work of the people.
    What is the work the people are doing?
    Participation in the liturgy.
    So, the work of the people is to participate in the work of the people...

    What is the Liturgy?
    The work of the people AND the work of God.
    What is the work the people are doing?
    Participation in the liturgy.
    So, the work of the people is to participate in the work of the people and the work of God.

    What is the liturgy?
    God's work of saving his people.
    What is the work of the people?
    To participate in the liturgy.
    Now we have a definition that is not circular: The work of the people is to participate in God's saving work.

    Although the people of God have a clear and rightful work to do, "work of the people" simply doesn't work as a full or partial definition of the word Liturgy. Even in a logical sense - leaving aside the fact that "work of the people" is not what the word means or how the church understands the word.

    Circular, anthropocentric definition of terms, circular anthropocentric architecture, circular anthropocentric music....there may be some kind of connection here :)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    The Liturgical Institute is not targeting liturgical scholars with 2 minute videos. They are targeting people on twitter and Facebook who have never heard anything about liturgy other than what Fr. Bob has told them from the pulpit.


    That sounds like all the reason more to ensure it's correct.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    How come people who think it IS the "Work of the people" always focus on "the people" and never "work"?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    How come people who think it IS the "Work of the people" always focus on "the people" and never "work"?


    "Work" is, as you have noticed, a 4-letter word with unpleasant associations. Remember that it was one of the curses placed on Adam when God kicked his behind out of the garden. LOL.
  • W = F s

    Work is the force (F) of the Unmoved Mover a displacement s (s = faith journey). The closer to God we get, the more work we do.


    JO, I am sympathetic to your view. I appreciate the need for clarity on this issue, and Fr. Margis could probably stand to tighten up just what is nuance and what is solid fact. Still, in a video such as this, a certain amount of redefinition of the target audience's vocabulary may shut them down entirely. I do hope he might revisit the point at the end and then make the proper definition clear.
  • RS - thanks, but I'll just point out that the classical definition of liturgy, the church's reasons for using that word, and the church's definitions of the word in current documents are not "my view." I merely observe these things - they are not my opinions. I would also say that if the target audience is true lay people, they do not really have any clear sense of what liturgy means. So explaining it correctly would not be a turnoff at all. The only people I can see being turned off by a correct definition are liturgists of a certain ideological bent, or possibly parish musicians with limited and questionable formation. I don't think those people are looking to videos like this for education.
  • Oh, you know the Church's definition of something doesn't count for anything these days. The Church says "use Gregorian Chant," oh, but it's "depressing" and "not uplifting enough" so we just won't do it, even though the Church says to.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • ...even though the Church says to.


    There is, indeed, much 'cherry picking' with regard to 'what the Church says to...'.
    Quite too many people's attitudes are: a) 'the Church says to (do thus). I like that, so I will do it and proclaim loudly that the Church (or the pope) says to do it'; and/or b) 'it says here that we are supposed to (do thus). I don't like that, so I'll not do it, forbid others from doing it, fire or make life miserable for anyone who does it, and ignore totally that the Church (or the pope) says to do it'.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Jared, I read Pope Francis' sermon in Florence today, and it's had the strangest effect on my brain. Where I would have completely agreed with your concerns before, just now a rainbow-colored light has dawned, and I've suddenly realized that it's your inner Pelagian that makes you yearn for a "classic definition" of liturgy and inclines you to search for "correctness" and a precise orientation. This is no doubt centred upon a desire to feel superior and an improper affection for structure, security, comfort and normalcy.

    You must stop searching for the answers in conservatism and fundamentalism and in the restoration of obsolete conduct and forms that no longer have the capacity of cultural significance. You must instead actively generate questions, doubts and interrogatives.

    Above all, let yourself be carried by the breath of the Spirit and let yourself go . . .

    You must assume the Spirit of the great explorers and set yourself free to navigate the open water and not be frightened by storms and open borders and the fear of losing something.

    Stop being a teacher of complex doctrine and put on a happy face! : )

    Dream of a happy Church with the face of a mother. Believe in it and innovate it with freedom!

    http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/catholicism-can-and-must-change-francis-forcefully-tells-italian-church-gathering
  • Is he promoting Liturgical experimentation again?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Interesting article on one of his stumbles and near falls. That seems to be happening more frequently. Is he ill?

    The link doesn't seem to work and it was from Reuters yesterday. The gist of the article was,

    From Reuters:

    Pope Francis had to be helped up the steps to an altar at a Rome basilica on Monday after stumbling in public for the second time in three days.

    Two church officials flanked the 78-year-old pontiff and took him by the arm as he faltered on his way up the steps during a service in the Basilica of St. John Lateran.
  • How come people who think it IS the "Work of the people" always focus on "the people" and never "work"?


    There's an implied 'other', as in "the work of the (other) people". So we don't really need to focus on the work -- that's handled by the (other) people, which leaves us free to focus on (us) people.
  • You must stop searching for the answers in conservatism and fundamentalism and in the restoration of obsolete conduct and forms that no longer have the capacity of cultural significance. You must instead actively generate questions, doubts and interrogatives.

    Funny - I thought he was talking about the liturgical msic of the seventies there...after all it is what has been happening all my life, so those who want to keep it going are conserving it, and the supposed motive behind it was to strip music of artistic grandeur and get back to the fundamentals of the folk music tradition... and it sure lacks any capacity for cultural significance.

    Chant on the other hand, is new and fresh, excites all sorts of questions, certainly makes me doubt my ability ever to do it justice, even with my best work and practise....

    surely the holy father, so good at subtle messages, was encouraging the chant? no?

    hagan con brio?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I am sure everyone has read this.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/issues/november-6th-2015/can-bad-catholic-music-be-stopped/

    Anyway, that is the link. These never seem to work for me unless I enter them in Google.
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Thanks. What did you change, for future reference?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    I put your link inside a link markup. Click on the little 'link' icon (second from the right, just before the 'quote' icon). Then put your link between the two double quotes "" and finally put text (I put 'Link fixed') between the > and the < ... i.e. '>Link fixed<'
  • JO. You're right. It is not your view, but the Church's constant teaching. I suppose I am partial to the Lit Inst because of my time at their workshops. I stand by my position that their intent was to be "pastoral" in their definition, but it really isn't necessary, which you pointed out. A good, clear definition of liturgy can put us on a better track quicker than nuances that are don't necessarily get the balance right.

    But let us follow this series to see what they get right, and use it in our efforts at liturgical formation with due clarification, if such clarifications are rarely necessary.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    I put your link inside a link markup. Click on the little 'link' icon (second from the right, just before the 'quote' icon). Then put your link between the two double quotes "" and finally put text (I put 'Link fixed') between the > and the < ... i.e. '>Link fixed<' </blockquote>

    Thanks! I will file this for future reference.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oh, you know the Church's definition of something doesn't count for anything these days.

    GIRM (paraphrased) sez: The Entrance Chant accompanies the ministerial procession.
    OCP sez: "Hmmmmm?"
    "Cantor" sez: "Please stand and lift up your hearts and voices with the Entrance Chant 'Sing of the Lord's Goodness' 1-2-3/4-5 (go!)"

  • Reval
    Posts: 186
    "Cantor" sez: "Please stand and lift up your hearts and voices with the Entrance Chant 'Sing of the Lord's Goodness' 1-2-3/4-5 (go!)"


    I may have ranted about this here before, but I occasionally attend a parish where the choir sings this frequently, but they manage to sing it in 6/4 ("sing of the Lord's goooodness"), and it makes me crazy. I don't even know if they play the rhythm wrong on purpose, or if they don't know how to sing it the right way. But I shouldn't even care, because it's so horrid anyway!
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Circular, anthropocentric definition of terms, circular anthropocentric architecture, circular anthropocentric music....there may be some kind of connection here :)


    Doh.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Very useful Jared. When we star off with wrong presupposition, we can't end up in the correct place. This is why we have the skewed idea that liturgy is a horozontal action, anthrocentric, the meal, banquet, and liturgy is just a social transaction directed at each other.
  • ...and some say the New Mass isn't Protestantized.
    Thanked by 1Reval
  • I fail to see (if one was intended) the connexion between Greg's astute observation and the corllary asserted by Clerget. (With all due respect.)
  • I never did like the notion that "liturgy is the work of the people". Something about that always rang false to me.
  • Something about that always rang false to me.


    The Truth always has a distinct ring to it. Good observation, richardUK. Everyone recognizes this ring as well.
  • On the Protestant side, I'll just point out that one doesn't have to be Catholic to get basic etymology/definition correct. Some of my teachers pointing out the correct definition at Notre Dame were protestant, and certainly other protestant teachers/writers/pastors have noted the danger of the "work of the people" definition.
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Actually, I have not heard protestant churches approach liturgy from a horozontal standpoint, forvexample, I have never heard that from the Lutherans! It seems to be a modern Catholic invention. Many of our protestant brethren seen to have more Catholic viewpoint that Catholics do - quite ironic isn't it?