The only thing I can do for you is pray for you.

It is upsetting to me that you are working so hard to do what Christ wants you to do, but you are getting resistance.

This is very sad.

I wonder to what extent the congregation "participates" when the priest is preaching a homily, or saying the Eucharistic Prayer, or when the lectors read the readings.

I was also told by the pastor last week that Kyrie XI is too hard and change to a simpler one for people's participation. Actually I noticed that people were started to sing it. But I think priests are under so much pressure of this 'participation' issue these days, and today's people in this superspeed world want an immediate, fast output, no patience whatsoever, even with learning music. I've tried to talk to him that it is actually one of the simple one. But it didn't work. I talked to my schola about it, (they love this Kyrie ) and we decided to obey. I think it's better we tried to talk to the priests in a way that shows that you are trying to accomodate his suggestions. Maybe you can ask him that you can replace some Latin chants to English ones, and after a while I think there will be a chance you can reintroduce them. It is important you keep doing the schola, and there will be a chance. God will help you. But right now it's better to somehow you keep your schola and keep a good relationship with your priest.(my 2 cents advice)
I really hope someday we all remember that this external participation is not as important as understanding of our true participation in Christ' sacrifice at the Eucharist, and the beautiful sacred music really helps us to remember that.

What congregation in their right minds, excluding Trappists and Carmelites, wants to sing at 6:30 a.m.? Maybe they wish to participate by actively praying.

I agree with Jeffrey, as I do about almost everything except the ictus. Don't freak out. Keep it simple and English. See what the participation response is. Focus your schola's ambitions on an offertory and/or communion chant, making sure that nothing "lasts too long," another source of complaint. At the risk of sounding Machiavellian, is your group at 6:30 seen as a threat by some individual or group? And as Michael suggests, see if you can get a sense if there's really something else going on here.

And you have my prayers as well.

I, too, am a teacher in a K through 8 school and music director/organist at the parish. Part of the problem is that when you or I say "traditional and orthodox," we don't mean the same thing the congregation does. Granted, I could attend Latin EF or OF masses all day with no problem, but my congregation regards them as a curiosity to be seen and heard occasionally. I think you did too much, too soon for the congregation and pastor to accept. At my early morning mass, the people did not want any music at all when I took the job in 2001. I have kept things low key, with softer traditional organ literature, and traditional English hymns. But it has taken that long to win them over. They now accept music at mass, which means on to step "B." The rest of the mass congregations like traditional English literature, but they are not willing to accept Latin on an every Sunday basis. So, I use Latin mass parts during Lent, with the occasional Latin motet thrown in at other times. The naturally impatient traditional Catholic musician is likely to remain frustrated most of the time. This process takes years.

I second the recommendation for the Ward method. It is true that if the kids want good music, the parents will go along.

rogue63, we can't afford to lose good people like you. keep us posted!

chonak is right on this. Keep singing. My schola doesn't have a Mass, but we rehearse and found a place to sing Vespers on a regular basis. Occasionally, we're asked along to something else, probably more as an oddity than for any liturgical or musical value we might have.

And I am persuaded (or deluded) that simply making chant present in a place will eventually have a positive effect.

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rogue, that is just disgusting. This is horrible to hear.

I just attended a Mass where the ENTIRE Eucharistic prayer was accompanied by "ad libitum" country acoustic guitar, and the rest of the music at Mass was "jammed to" on the same guitar.

By the way, telling the kids not to focus on Solfege is the dumbest thing I ever heard. That is equivalent to telling reading students not to worry so much about phonics and the alphabet. I could go into detail about this, but I don't have time right now.

Blech. I'm sorry about the setback for your schola, especially since this came out of left field.

Regarding the pastor's comments about your classroom, it sounds like there's some different understandings about who sets the curriculum. Was this a class that was taught before that you are either following or changing? Are you free to choose the curriculum or does the school have some guidelines different from what you are doing now. I teach science at a Catholic school and very carefully note what I'm required to teach and what I can choose to include. If the admin/pastor of your school mandates that "fun" is the major goal of a music class and that "fun" does not include chant then there's little you can do. However, I've found that simply teaching what is fun according to the opinion of adolescents very rarely leads to much learning. (That's not to say that certain valuable learning activities can't be fun, but it's not what should drive the curriculum.) And I'm not sure that parents paying tuition at a Catholic school are paying for their kids to simply have a good time.

rogue63,

I agree with others that this is a blow, and some aspects of it are not to be taken seriously. Recently we had some parishioners lobbying hard for "more uplifting music" of the bad variety. We tried working with them, explaining things, but that was what they wanted. Eventually they left, because they felt "more at home" at the folk group parish down the street. Good riddance! Thank goodness we didn't overreact to their criticism, which is exactly what your pastor is doing.

On the other hand, the remarks about the quality of singing and playing are certainly worth considering. It might be worthwhile taking a thoughtful listen to a recording of your schola. How is the blend? Are there harsh voices? These things can happen and can keep an otherwise very worthwhile program from getting off to a good start.

I hope that you find a way to continue with this work, though I wouldn't blame you for chucking it all. God bless you--I have been praying for you and will continue to pray that there is a good way forward.

A small tip for teaching solfege and chant. I use Kodaly hand motion (Ward method has hand motions for each note too) for solfege. Kids seemed to like it. And it helps them to focus. I started with do, re, mi then add sol, la then fa, ti. They have to be good to add more notes. They were eager to add 'fa' last week. For Latin, I make up a crossword puzzle whenever they start a new chant and give them stickers.(little ones) There's a website for it. Also whoever memorize each verse is rewarded. (Hopefully the rewards will not be necessary in the future.)

My initial thoughts are here. It seems that the pastor is not only undereducated regarding the Church's teaching on music, but also basic leadership. I'm working only with the information given though, and while I'm attempting to see things from both your perspective as well as that of the pastor, know that my sympathies lie with you, rogue63, even as my prayers go out for the both of you.

Aristotle makes a good point about leadership. It seems that priests probably need to learn about conflict resolution to avoid letting work conflicts getting to the degraded level this one reached.

Also, if this priest's way of dealing with dissatisfaction is to micromanage, that's a sign that he doesn't know how to formulate clear policies yet. Not everybody has that skill. And if he then proceeds to vent rather than propose improvements, he's probably going to leave a trail of staff turnover wherever he works.

Thank you so much! I never really planned this, but was asked to do it after starting the schola at the parish... so I really appreciate the help!

Thanks, Mia!

Couldn't get it to open... is it a Word file?

that worked very well! Thanks... J.

Sorry, should have asked this before, is the pastor the school principal?
My pastor micro-manages everything, (he's a Type A, can't help it,) and I don't think he would dream of interfering in the curriculum of one of the teachers, unless the principle had already been approached and a parent or student had insisted on going over her head to the pastor, in which case, the principle would be part of the conversation.

And this being a vacation day, I hope you had a finger or two of that scotch.

And that you can find some other lovely parish at which to worship and to spend other non-work time.

(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

OH - I forgot to mention...
In a recent conversation with a local organist friend of mine, he might have hit a nail right on the head.
"Priests have to be treated like 12-year-olds. They have no life, therefore, no employment know-how."
BMP

Sad stories, my friends, but it reflects my own experience. I tried to understand the resistance a couple of years ago. Put yourself in the shoes of those who are complaining -- the number of folks may be higher than you think and YES people do leave parishes over the music (oddly, not bad preaching, but I digress). Things are going fine. Oh the usual parish soap operas are in place, but St X does things pretty much the same as all the other parishes in the area. Things are comfortable. St X hires a new music minister because the old one finally got fed up with the long hours and low pay. The new guy (or gal) has some funny ideas about church music, but we can't imagine that he will change things too much. After all, we've been doing what every other church in the country does and this system MUST be what the bishops and Rome wants since it's pretty universal and no one has complained (except that crazy lady who wears a mantilla to Mass and gets upset when people chat in the church after Mass... digressing again).

Fast forward a year and look what has happened. The new director programs hymns that no one knows (quality Victorian English hymns) and has installed a Latin chanted Ordinary. People are talking about St X and the radical conservative music that they have there. All of a sudden we are DIFFERENT and that can't be good. The older folks are darn sure that he (or she) is trying to turn back the clock by using music and language that is best left in the past with the old, uncompassionate Catholic Church. We've come so far since those old days and here he is ignoring all that. Well, we must do something. This music is in a language we don't understand (how can we pray?) and it all sounds so depressing. Where is the joy of a loving God? I come to Mass to get recharged for the week and now I'm just bored. He/She has to go.

OK. I need to take a bath after writing that, but I did my utmost to see things from the other side. Ironically, people want a universal and reliably unchanging Mass to offer a foundation for their lives. The folks who were young in the 60s and those who have known nothing else like things the way they are. Like I said in another post, church has been made comfy and unchallenging. Why do you think everyone groans when the felt banners that say "Renew" go up every year? Folks today are not so different from the Pre-Vat II church crowd. They want things to be predictable and the requirements easy to fulfill. The lesson to learn, if you want to swim in these waters, is to find out who the opinion makers are in your parish and make sure they are with you. They want to feel important, so make em feel darn important in the process of change. This sort of thing takes skills that were not taught in music school, but there's no other way. Even the most zealous pastor can't stay the course when collection funds are drying up. We should all remember that priests have so much more to deal with than music. I pray for them every day.

Michael's point about communicating with the influential people in the parish is a good one. It is no guarantee that you won't be stabbed in the back. But taking people to dinner, having parties, being friends etc., all of this seems like a good idea. It is the most difficult thing for me to remember that hardly anyone thinks the way we do, that there are principled issues at stake in the choice over liturgical music. Most people make judgments based on issues like friendship, comfort, familiarity, etc., and all points about theology or history are seen as mere abstractions.

Now, I will add here that at my parish, the people involved in sacred music are not paid. We are not even listed on staff. I am aware that this changes matters completely. Looking back, I'm quite certain that we would not have made it this far had we been paid for our labors and had to make judgments as employees rather than volunteers. At the same time, the pay for those who are paid is so low as to be laughable. I could make more money playing harmonica on the street corner. This is very tragic, and we can only hope that we are paving the way for a future in which our positions will be paid to our successors.

Well, that's right. It is an amazing and disgusting scandal that the market for professional musicians in the Catholic Church is so severely limited, and even worse that when they find jobs that pay, they are prevented from using the talents to do Catholic music. Such a market will emerge but only once the preconditions are there: educated priests, lay people who support and demand it, a liturgical culture that calls for it, supporting singers who are willing to commit the time. It is undeniable that the last decades have been devastating in a "windswept house" sort of way. There was a war on the choir, a war on quality, a war on true liturgical music, and there was a certain laziness that let the warriors win nearly every battle. Then there was shock and demoralization in our ranks, as well as other problems, so blame runs in many directions. The situation cannot last. The Catholic Church will again become home to the highest quality music and the highest art, true beauty to complement True Beauty. What we must do is work to bring about the preconditions, and though progress is being made, we are only in the first stages. Every day, do something that helps the cause and one day we will turn around and observe a new world in place.

One more comment...

The problem in reverse exists for many parishes who would like to improve the overall quality and cannot find a suitable DoM to hire in the area (See the classified listing for Music Director for the Shreveport cathedral). Please consider this position if you could think about relocating... even though it seems like there are a lot of us on this forum, folks who truly have the qualifications to play a pipe organ well, direct a cathedral choir and schola are few and far between... (I know I wouldn't qualify!)

Very tragic. Talk about discontinuity in tradition. This is precisely the fear that struck me the day after Summorum: that the EF would be used as a safety valve so that the OF could continue on being treated as a shabby worship service that has nothing to do with the whole of Catholic history.

Hasn't anyone ever wanted to say to a priest who says lame-brained, uncharitable and just plain stupid things to organists about their playing, "When you can play better than you can preach, we'll talk."