Latin congregational entrance hymns.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Well, that's because Purgatory will purge us of attachment to our own tastes. Flannery O'Connor captured this well in her immortal closing passage of “Revelation” – I am omitting the appropriate-to-character-in-this-context-given-the-Omniscient-Narrator use of the N word in order to avoid this triggering spam filters; forgive me, Miss O’Connor – the phrase “even their virtues were being burned away” betrays Patristic depth of wisdom:

    “She [Mrs. Turpin] bent her head slowly and gazed, as if through the very heart of mystery, down into the pig parlor at the hogs. They had settled all in one corner around the old sow who was grunting softly. A red glow suffused them. They appeared to pant with a secret life. Until the sun slipped finally behind the tree line, Mrs. Turpin remained there with her gaze bent to them as if she were absorbing some abysmal life-giving knowledge. At last she lifted her head. There was only a purple streak in the sky, cutting through a field of crimson and leading, like an extension of the highway, into the descending dusk. She raised her hands from the side of the pen in a gesture hieratic and profound. A visionary light settled in her eyes. She saw the streak as a vast swinging bridge extending upward from the earth through a field of living fire. Upon it a vast horde of souls were rumbling toward heaven. There were whole companies of white-trash, clean for the first time in their lives, and bands of black n*****s in white robes, and battalions of freaks and lunatics shouting and clapping and leaping like frogs. And bringing up the end of the procession was a tribe of people whom she recognized at once as those who, like herself and Claud, had always had a little of everything and the God- given wit to use it right. She leaned forward to observe them closer. They were marching behind the others with great dignity, accountable as they had always been for good order and common sense and respectable behavior. They alone were on key. Yet she could see by their shocked and altered faces that even their virtues were being burned away. She lowered her hands and gripped the rail of the hog pen, her eyes small but fixed unblinkingly on what lay ahead. In a minute the vision faded but she remained where she was, immobile.

    At length she got down and turned off the faucet and made her slow way on the darkening path to the house. In the woods around her the invisible cricket choruses had struck up, but what she heard were the voices of the souls climbing upward into the starry field and shouting hallelujah.”
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Reminds me of some of Pope Francis' stinging words about Christian hypocrites, e.g., Christians who "disguise themselves, they disguise themselves as good people: they make themselves up like little holy cards, looking up at heaven as they pray, making sure they are seen—they believe they are more righteous than others, they despise others!"

    However, this is really, I think, a post-Victorian age reaction. While we might be tempted to think the middle class hypocrites we will have with us always as a handy punching bag, it seems to me that "the bourgeois pigs," the comfortable, mildly prosperous business class with solid civic and Christian moral virtues, are rapidly vanishing from the landscape.
  • Whatever its standards are, I hope to be there.
    I'm sure that we shall all be enthralled.
    (Anything that we imagine about it will have been 'as straw'.)
  • Ted
    Posts: 204
    tomjaw:
    Thanks for your suggestions. Indeed, your nos 1 & 3 are being looked into.
    You mention that you have access to volumes of Office Hymns. Could you give an example title of one volume? What would you suggest for next Sunday, Pentecost XIII?
    This is quite fascinating.
  • When musicians arrive in Heaven, I'm fairly sure their reception will be akin to Anton Bruckner's:

    image

    Also, I forget which philosopher said so, but he surmised that the bureaucratic language of the angelic choirs will be Bach, but the everyday dinner conversation will be Mozart.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • What, then, is the language of Purgatory? What about the various circles of Hell?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Haydn more likely than Mozart.
  • Stimson -

    It was Karl Barth who said 'Whether the angels play only Bach in in praising God I am not quite sure; I am sure, however, that en famille they play Mozart'.

    MJO, on the other hand, has written: 'It is a certainty beyond difpute that Bach is very nearly always played and fung in praifing God in Heaven. There are, however, fome ocafsions of a rare importance at which only the moft erudite Englifh Renaifsance Polyphony (ufually Tallis or Taverner) is fung; and, fome others at which Plainchant fung by the choiceft French Monks is de rigueur'.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    What, then, is the language of Purgatory? What about the various circles of Hell?

    Ocheghem....Telemann......Danzi......most of the Italian Romantic opera composers....Kurt Weill..... A. Webern....Dallapicolla/Berio.....Cage....Glass/Reilly.....Harrison....and a bunch of people still breathing.
  • Charles -
    You left out Stockhausen!
    There are others often heard in our liturgy for whom Christian Charity bids me give a pass. (They will have much to learn in heaven - much more than others.)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    What in the world is wrong with the music of Johannes Ockeghem? I've sung and recorded (with Zephyrus) both his Alma Redemptoris Mater and his Ave Maria... benedicta tu. He was one of the most significant Franco-Flemish composers of the late 15th century, a worthy predecessor to Josquin des Prez.

    The Zephyrus recording of Ave Maria:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGJ9ptk4Pns

    The Alma Redemptoris as sung by Pomerium:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m79X61rH7Ac

    Here is a recording (from 1978) of his "Missa Prolationum"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-gGwzFLFKI

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Many thanks for the above, Chuck.
    It really is so very difficult to rank the late mediaeval and early renaissance masters, regardless of their 'nationality'. Any ranking at all only does an injustice to all. Not only is our western musical tradition unique in comparison to all the world's musical traditions, but the luminaries of the XVth and XVIth centuries are in a class by themselves. As western music is a unique phenomenon, so are the late mediaeval-early renaissance masters unique within it.

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Chuck, as the whole post was jest, I just had to settle for one polyphonic-era composer. Since I was just using my memory references (a feeble, impaired approach that) I just remember that old Johnnie, according to Grout, was at times vilified for appropriating really bawdy tunes as cantus firmi. I do recall his genius with multiple voicings was considerable tho'.
    MJO, you're right, Stockhausen should've sufficed better than the crazed 20th c. Italians. But I dismissed him from any care in my yout', while Webern just irritates me if I think of his name, as does Glass.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    Thanks for your suggestions. Indeed, your nos 1 & 3 are being looked into.
    You mention that you have access to volumes of Office Hymns. Could you give an example title of one volume? What would you suggest for next Sunday, Pentecost XIII?
    This is quite fascinating.


    The Sundays after Pentecost are difficult to find Hymns suitable, they use the Common Office Hymns and will not have Hymns written for them. Of course we could read through the Propers and see if anything springs to mind, but we prefer to look at the Sanctoral Cycle for our Hymns...

    Well it would be the Vigil of St. Bartholomew, (this of course is transferred to Saturday) we will be singing at least one of the Hymns given below,

    https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/st-bartholomew/

    The following Sunday XIV will fall on the Feast of Rose of Lima, the Dominican Rite has Office Hymn in Honour of her...

    https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/st-rose-of-lima/

    Books of Hymns... First we should start with Hymns in use now or recently,
    1. Roman Breviary (use an older version before 1950!) it should have a larger selection.
    2. Monastic breviary (A.M 1934, L.A. 1891, L.R. 1895, and the French supplement these are mostly found in the CMAA links)
    3. Domincan breviary (Antiphonale / Matutinum / Processionarium, all found in the CMAA links / resources) A book of all the Hymns with translations was written by Aquinas Byrnes, and can be found online.
    4. Carmalite breviary has other hymns a link on this forum gave a download of the Proprium_Carmelitarum
    5. Ambrosian breviary (the Liber Vesperalis Ambrosiano can be found online)
    6. Sarum breviary, Sarum Hymns and meolodies google books also the Sarum website http://hmcwordpress.mcmaster.ca/renwick/

    While the above sources will give hymns for the majority of Feasts of the Temporal cycle, it will only cover some of the Sanctoral cycle, other places to look...

    1. Liturgical Year, Gueranger www.theliturgicalyear.org/
    2. Cantus Database http://cantusdatabase.org
    3. Global Chant database http://globalchant.org
    4. Analecta Hymnica c.55 Volumes of Hymns https://archive.org/search.php?query=Analecta Hymnica
    N.B. the OCR texts are not corrected! so always check!

    I also have an unpublished work on the most popular Office Hymns of c. 1100, I don't think I have permission to distribute... but can send excerpts.
  • Ted
    Posts: 204
    I have started to compile traditional Latin entrance hymns using more recent metrical melodies. One interesting thing I have found is that English Catholic hymnals before Vatican II rarely, if ever, used melodies whose origin is Protestant, generally by the composer's affiliation. Of course, they never used texts written by Protestants. This impresses me, actually, even though a lot of the melodies and texts are poor, and sounds un-Oecumenical but that is not my main intention. Rather, it is important to preserve one's Catholic heritage. This is my "thing" only, but I will be using melodies that are of Catholic origin in the above sense, at least for now. That limits me even further, so I will have to also start investigating non-English Catholic hymnals prior to Vatican II. If anyone has suggestions.....