Why not just have the congregation sing the preceding hour of the office (e.g., Terce)? Then you can go straight into the Holy Mass without any novusy "gathering songs."

Heh, heh..."novusy".

Thanks for your comments thus far. It has been frustrating to find such hymns, considering that with all these big Catholic hymnal publishers around not one of them follows what the Council asked for: that Latin be retained in the liturgy. The Council felt more participation was needed, especially now that the general population is better educated than ever before. One would in fact think that Latin hymns would be a no brainer for those who could at least read and write now, but it seems to be the contrary.

But frustration and polemics aside, my situation is perhaps more unique. The pastor studied with the FSSP, but he is also Slovak, so he was recently assigned to a Slovak Parish in Montreal by the Bishop. He is now giving the parish an additional second vocation, the daily EF Mass. The two vocations work very well together. So the folks attending the weekly Sunday Sung Latin High Mass are folks whose mother tongues are French, English, Slovak, and even others. He does not want anyone excluded for the people's singing part in the Mass, so Latin fills that need for the hymns. The closing hymn is normally Marian, so that has not been too big a problem.

Office hymns are very good in the sense that they fit very well with the festival of the day. But I know that even the repertoire of vernacular hymns falls short of that, so general "seasonal" hymns are used in most parishes. A variety of seasonal Latin hymns that are easily sung would be a start.

Stimson, my friend, since you're already in rehab, I'll refrain from getting back at you for that. I never hit a man when he's down.

Amen, and amen to Cardinal Pell's quote above.
It is refreshingly balanced, sober, and wise, qualities too often absent in the hyperbolic expressions of partisans of both the novus and antiquor versions of the Roman rite. We are (everyone!) meant to have, know, and treasure both.

Honestly, I've never had any problem with simply doing an organ processional. A hymn certainly wouldn't be required at the beginning of Mass, and if it's such a burden, why do it?

Especially in your multi-lingual situations, maybe hymns aren't a good fit. There's no need to force it. If they don't work, just don't do them.

Ben and dad29:
Ah yes, but that is the easy way out. I do not think it is the right way to go. Vatican II reminded us that people's internal and external participation in the liturgy was at a low. I do not think that a revolutionary new Mass was needed, as the traditional Mass could have received a few "tweaks" here and there to encourage quality participation. It also reminded us that some important things were forgotten through the centuries. One of these is processions in secular churches. During the late middle ages there were processions galore, and we have chants books for this, the Processionales which I am also investigating. Regular processions eventually fell into disuse in secular churches although they continued in monastic churches. Originally, the Introit too was a processional in the large Basilicas.

Why don't you just have them learn the ordinary if it is insisted that they sing (which is certainly not a requirement)? Vatican II said we need more "actual" participation (a better translation). As JPII said above, participation demands silence at times, in particular, when listening to the liturgical music.

Ben:
Except for the Propers, all the Ordinary is sung antiphonally with the people. And here I have to say there is more participation in song by the people than the vast majority of Novus Ordo Masses I have ever attended. Everyone sings the closing Marian hymn during the "recessional", and it is awesome especially when sung to a more modern tune, eg. Salve Regina Coelitum. Something like this would be very welcome for the entrance processions. If interested, www.latine.ca has the congregational booklets for every sung Mass, although some are not complete precisely because of the entrance chants.

Indeed, Latin is to be retained in the liturgy, but congregational hymns before and after the Mass are not really "the liturgy", so it's not necessary to require that they be in Latin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9_RZQ3GLmI

P.S. The Schola St. Cecile regularly uses festive Latin anthems at the entrance procession just as Ted described above. Here's one of their programs with the hymn Regnavit Dominus sung by the entire congregation with fantastic organ interludes between verses. Something for everyone there.

http://www.schola-sainte-cecile.com/programmes/2012-2013/08-pentecote/06-dimanche04.pdf

A recording:

http://www.schola-sainte-cecile.com/2013/06/16/enregistrement-sainte-messe-du-iveme-dimanche-apres-la-pentecote-la-peche-miraculeuse/

Ted

What a great idea singing Latin Hymns so all are included... We (EF) usually sing Office / Processional Hymns after the Offertory and Communion, but we do not have much congregational singing...

Have you seen this, http://gregorian-chant-hymns.com/hymns-2/

Also this society (I am involved with this) is in the process of producing a hymn book, https://societyofstbede.wordpress.com

This may help produce Hymns, https://bbloomf.github.io/jgabc/transcriber.html

So you want a collection of Hymns, a few questions.

1. Chant notation or modern notation?
2. Do you need a Hymn for each week (Sunday) and does it need to be directly related to the Sunday or just the season?
3. When the Sunday falls on a feast say St. Anne, could you use a Hymn for St. Anne instead of the Sunday? (Last Sunday we sang a Hymn for St. Laurence)
4. Could you use the ancient Processional Hymns, such as Salve Festa Dies (there are plenty more for different seasons / feast days)
5. Melodies, I presume you would like to use a small number of melodies that can be reused for different hymn texts?
6. How often would you want to reuse the melodies say Veni Creator has a melody that was originally used for an Easter Hymn Hic set Dies.
7. Do you have any preferred melodies?

Why Latin congregational hymns? In the EF liturgy it is entirely acceptable to sing processionals and recessionals in the vernacular. Mass does not start with the procession, it begins at the Introit.

I'm entirely supportive of Latin mass, tradition, etc, but insisting that every last thing be done in Latin is pushing it too far. There are thousands of good hymns out there, all suitable for use on various Sundays and Solemnities which may be included in liturgical worship.

Sometimes I think it boils down to something of an attitude of "Protestants sing hymns, Catholics sing chant." but in reality, most Catholics don't know single neume of chant.

JulieColl: I do love grand organ processionals, but encouraging the community aspect of the EF congregation with vernacular entrance and closing hymns is, in my opinion, the greater good.

Chonak: Indeed, Latin is to be retained in the liturgy, but congregational hymns before and after the Mass are not really "the liturgy", so it's not necessary to require that they be in Latin.

So there is something to what Chonak says here... and I do think (at least in a mostly mono-vernacular community) vernacular hymns at the entrance would make more sense than Latin Hymns, but there is a rubrical question here as well.

The entrance and the exit and their music in the EF are rubrically regulated.

The Caeremoniale Episcoporum says:

"Quotiescumque Episcopus solemniter celebraturus, aut Missae solemni per alium celebrandae in festis solemnioribus interfuturus, Ecclesiam ingreditur; aut, re divina peracta, discedit, convenit pulsari organum."

And mutatis mutandis, the Caeremoniale applies to parish celebrations as well.

 

tomjaw:
Thanks for your links. As for the questions, here are some answers:
1. Music notation makes no difference. People try to follow the melody being played on the organ and sung by the choir.
2. Preferably, a new entrance hymn for every Sunday.
3. We in fact had St Anne's on Sunday two weeks ago (special for French Canada), and used a hymn from the new Antiphonale Monasticum (Solesmes).
4. I am looking into the Processionals and would have to weigh the merits with, say, something from the Divine Office, such as for Vespers.
5. If possible, melodies could be re-used, not every week, but fairly often.
6. That is possible, but I was thinking of more recent melodies, that is, from the 16th century onwards.
7. Adoremus Bulletin posted about 10 years ago, the top 10 most popular Catholic hymns. Tunes like those would be a good start. ( http://www.adoremus.org/0905Hymns.html ) In other words, I would prefer they not be Gregorian melodies.

Ben:
I have kept your idea of organ processional in mind. But after some thought, I began to wonder what would be the purpose of instrumental music before or after a liturgy, or even during. Surely it is not for pleasure. If it is about beauty then in what sense? There seems to be a can of worms opening up here.

I think that Ted's concern is appreciable. However, I myself would question that pleasure, in and of itself, is a minus category in relation to liturgy. I would suggest that the liturgy itself is most pleasurable, particularly when celebrated with due sobriety and ceremony, splendidly. The organ, as the Church's pre-emminent musical instrument (other than the human voice), has a recognised place in our worship, contributes to this splendour, and adds much of unique beauty and character to it. It is fitting that it be employed for playing voluntaries, even at the offertory and communions when there is no ritual choral music being sung. Should we eschew the organ because it is pleasurable when we take immense pleasure at the other artful appointments around the church, including the very vesture of the sacred ministers? I, personally, do not think so. It is to be hoped that our God himself will be 'pleased' with all the arts which we call into service in worshiping him. Where I believe Ted's concern has value would be in allowing this artful beauty to be a distraction from our divine spiritual focus, rather than enhance it. And this, of course is every individual's heartful challenge, not a categorical negative. I think that we all know of St Augustine of Hippo's struggle with this very matter when he tells us that he was so moved by the chanting of psalms, so entranced by the beauty of the singing that he questioned whether it should be permitted. Wisely, he was able to put the conflicting facets into perspective with one another and decided in favour of the singing. It seems that we have, in our history, a need from time to time to find a balance between spiritual pleasure in the arts and music, and a puritan's tendency to forbid such. The puritan's approach might, it seems to me, be the equivalent of wearing a mental hair shirt. We are not all called to that, at least not as a constant. And, God is pleased with the beauty that we create by which to do him honour in his sacred precincts. So, if one himself is pleased, thank God for the gift of that pleasure had in his holy place. That is the correct focus. Our liturgy should be a Transfiguration event. Then we go out and get to work.

MJO. Yes, I was thinking of St. Augustine:
(Confess. x, 33): "When it befalls me to be more moved by the voice than by the words sung, I confess to have sinned penally, and then had rather not hear the singer." A good voice should be the means for sung prayer, not become the end. In this context I do have a problem with pleasure. It can easily become an end in itself, and we start having idolatry for what gives pleasure. Clearly, we must go beyond pleasure when it comes to the liturgy. I don't think Augustine was ever comfortable with beauty because it has the potential to distract us from seeking God.
This is a whole other world of discussion and is getting beyond my original topic, but it does address my preference for sung prayer over instruments in music for the liturgy.

Has anyone mentioned the St. Gregory Hymnal and the Pius X Hymnal? Those contain some Latin hymns a congregation could sing: e.g., Concordi Laetitia.

Thanks for that memorable phrase: "Congregational singing is always a living proof of the faith."

Pope Pius XII also said in Mediator Dei: "Let the full harmonious singing of the faithful rise to heaven like the bursting of a thunderous sea and let them testify by the melody of their song to the unity of their hearts and minds, as becomes brothers and the children of the same Father,"

I remember 'having' to do Flor Peeters' bloated and gaudy Christus vincit for Easter every year when I was in the service of Msgr di Primeo right after VII. It seems to me that such things are more atuned to Hollywood extravaganzas (or, maybe, the grand opera stage) than sacred liturgy. Otherwise (except for 'having' to play fanfares on the en chamade at the elevation on great feasts) he was quite rewarding to serve. After the council he did what he had always done - he just did it in English, which is to say that we had a solemn high mass in English with very fine music every Sunday that would give Anglicans something to think about! This praxis did not outlive his tenure.

About those fanfares - I could have crawled under the pavement! I thought at the time (and still do) that only a Catholic would do something so abjectly tasteless and gaudy during sacred proceedings.

Well, they won't be done in heaven!
In heaven there won't be any bad taste - only impeccably perfect taste.

In heaven there won't be any bad taste - only impeccably perfect taste.

Well, let's hope that it meets your standards.