Agreed.

The Lumen Christi Hymnal is probably the answer.

It contains no questionable hymns and just enough hymns for a congregation.

If one is really SINGING THE MASS - one doesn't need 400 hymns. If one is just using 1-2 hymns per Sunday, one needs no more than around 100 hymns.

If you'd like to buy the Lumen Christi Hymnal, please contact me. I'd love to help you.

By my way of reckoning, 1-2 hymns per Sunday, in light of the 3-year Lectionary cycle comes to way over 100 hymns ... more like 200-250. One hundred good hymns is a good start.

You don't buy a hymnal with 500 hymns because you need 500 hymns. You buy it because it might have the 75 you actually need. One or two missing hymns can make the difference between a great hymnal and ho-hum.

If one is blessed to be in a parish in which he can sing the propers every week, has a choir capable of a decent offertory anthem every week, and decent ordinaries are sung, he has need of very little hymnody for the Roman rite.

However, in all but a relatively few parishes, even in those which have decent musical standards, hymnody is going nowhere; it is here to stay, and is not, sui generis, necessarily a negative. A wise person will realise this and take it to heart, and build with the best and noblest hymnody, including chant in his program as how he may (during, I might add, Christmastide and Eastertide as well as Advent and Lent!).

If one is blessed to be in a parish in which the propers are not normally sung, but in which hymnody is the norm, then he would have need of a suitable processional hymn, a theologically apt offertory hymn, and a suitable dismissal hymn for every Sunday and solemnity to match the day's lectionary. One hundred or two hundred-fifty hymns will not do for the three year cycle. I know of no Catholic hymnal which provides the hymnody that would be required for every solemnity, every Sunday and feast. What, for instance does one do if he needs a feast specific hymn that is of processional register, of theological import for offertory, and apt as a dismissal hymn for, say, the Presentation or Baptism of the Lord, the solemnity of the Basilica of St John Lateran (solemnities such as this do occasionally fall on Sundays), Mary days at which one doesn't want to sing the waltzing Immaculate Mary our hearts are on fire yet again, and a host of other solemnities and Sundays for which there is no fit hymnody in any of our hymnals.

Every solemnity is a little Christmas or Easter. Every single mass, in fact, is a little Easter. We need apt hymns for every last one of them. Propers are, of course, the most fitting 'hymnody' of the Roman rite. In fact, as we all know, omitting the propers from the liturgy is to de-nude it of something that is as part and parcel to it as the collect of the day. But, if one must sing hymns, then hymns are one's 'propers'. This is really self-evident.

I'm making some assumptions above in suggesting a hymnal, not really with the intent of choosing an ultimate hymnal, because that would be too revolutionary and not good for the peace of the parish. I'd assume:

* that the pastor intends to keep OF Masses in English as the main form of celebration in the parish.

* that the pastor wants to set out a course of gentle, gradual improvement over several years. This requires using the music director's records of what has been used in recent years, preserving the previous hymn repertoire to a large extent at the outset, dropping any doctrinally flawed texts, and not introducing more than one new hymn per month to the congregation.

* If propers are to be introduced, that can be done by choirs and cantors. The pew hymnal does not need to reflect that.

I disagree about not including the ordinaries (if you're not going to have them on pew cards in the alternative): visitors need them as matter of basic hospitality.

@chonak: Sergeantedward is looking for scripture reading replacements too, yes. Yes, that is one thing the fat Gather hymnals have. They do have the scripture at least. And congregations always complain (I used to myself too, at one church) about having to switch back and forth between Missal and Hymnal.

@M. Jackson Osborn and @chonak:

- OF Masses with English spoken, and Latin sung.
- the course for gradual improvement is already well under way. This church is singing all the Propers at one Mass, and hymns at the second Mass.
- the idea for now is to offer one Mass with sung Propers and choral anthems (with choir, professional schola, organ), and one Mass with hymns (cantor, organ). For two reasons: (1) pastoral, i.e. a lot of folks will take many years to actually *get* the Propers and *want* them and (2) resources, i.e. it's better to do the Propers REALLY well at one Mass, than spread your resources too thin trying to do them at both Masses but not accomplishing them well.

A long-lasting hymnal (quality made, intended to last 20-30 years) that helps guide the parish fully into the church's vision for sacred music is the ideal. So a little revolutionary isn't a bad thing!

@melofluent: You're totally right.... Anything to do with art, even the highly documented and philosophized sacred arts, are greatly subjective. That said.... Do you have a favorite *published* hymnal? ;-)

Do not have an exact answer for this topic, but since it is wandering, anyhow...

Custom-built hymnals are currently the only choice today for a parish to get exactly that they want. We've built them and they require a lot of work from the parish to decide exactly what they want - for some the commercial ones are an easier purchase. However, those that take the tire and effort are rewarded with a useful book.

Experienced publishers can take the cafeteria approach and plug in what the parish wants, which eases the job. New people are getting into the filed, like Francis above which is a good thing - the more choices, the better the outcome.

And my ideal hymnal would be rejected by many parishioners, present and future simply because I'm not them, and they always want something, anything different.

Melo's right...and this is a major problem. Parishioners should have no input into what music is needed by the parish if the Pastor and DM are in accord. Parishioners do not have the vision it takes to make these choices.

It's wholly conceptual and in any world, real or conceptual, there is no such animal as an ideal hymnal. This would still be the case even if the CDW, USCCB and the local See signed off on it.

Protestant denominations fund the creation of one book for everyone. Succesfully. During the years it is in use paperback supplements work to fill new need and when a new "one" book is published, some of that music is added.

Of course, the Catholic church has proved incapable of doing that in the US. Canada, however, I believe does have a national book?

@Gavin: I believe that's no longer in print.

@Noel Jones - The Catholic Choirbook and @Francis: I actually had no idea about custom-creating a hymnal... I've never seen that done.

The Vatican II Hymnal is not a good choice. The formatting and content are, frankly weird. I love Ostrowski and CCW, but that is not a great hymnal.

I worked on the Lumen Christi Hymnal, and I am a HUGE supporter of Adam Bartlett's work. But I'm not sure that hymnal is quite the one you want. For me, I think it is missing too many key things. However, it is definitely the right hymnal for some people. GET A SAMPLE. It might have everything you need.
(It's worth noting that the LC Series paradigm is wholly chant focused, with hymns as a minor supplement.)

St. Michael is probably the best option.

My opinion about custom-made hymnals is: Problematic.
If you only select the hymns you think you need, you do not get the benefit of great additional material you didn't know about but which you discover just because it is in the hymnal. Part of what you are buying when you buy a hymnal is the knowledge and experience of the editors. This can, obviously, be a bad thing. But it can also be a wonderful thing. Who here has never flipped through a hymnal and found some gem of a text or tune they had never seen or heard before?


Also:
I open hymnals for Ordinaries all the time. IF the program tells me what page each thing is on, I usually get it out. But most people don't do this.
I think a hymnal should have a few very popular chant and metrical settings (in English and Latin) so that you can sing Mass without having to do a lot or prep work, but ideally the Ordinary should be printed in the program.


What would I want if I was working in a Catholic parish?
-Lumen Christi Simple Gradual in pews & a stack of Lumen Christi Missals at the entrance for people who need readings
-St. Michael Hymnal
-A budget for printing.

Sarge, you are too kind, thanks.
But, no, I'm yet unawares of a product on the market now that I can endorse as remotely comprehensive enough for a standard American parish.
As Noel and Francis have mentioned, I support the "boutique hymnal" concept, and think if the majors would gear up for the mass-marketing of such (as they hold some important copyrights and reprint permissions) lots of parishes would benefit through customizing. But if it were fifteen years ago, I would have declared for GIA's RITUALSONGS. It's a shame they opted not to re-tool and retrofit that hymnal and its intent towards the clearly emerging 21st century amalgam that was only comprised of "all things bright and beautiful," including more chant, more Propers, a functional Psalter and only the best hymns, songs, Ordinary settings (beyond the ubiquitous and problematic Proulx, RIP) and whatnot. But now, nothing has sold me as a stand alone hymnal.

Custom hymnal. Here's the deal.

I have been creating POD (publishing on demand) for decades going back to creating 200 page reports to congress for medicare/medicaid, booklets, programs, you name it. This means small run publications designed for clients with a particular audience. I have done my own small hymnals for churches where I was the DoM. (many times, just the text will do or a melody line, which makes it much easier to produce).

If you are willing to use all public domain pieces, then you are good to go. There are hundreds of PD hymns. Of course the chant is all PD.

Here is one idea for a good baseline selection for a hymnal:

People's Dialogues
Propers - SEP
10 settings of the Mass (English and Latin)
150 solid hymns that span the liturgical year (including GC hymns for sure)
Parish Book of Psalms

In response to Adam:

If you only select the hymns you think you need, you do not get the benefit of great additional material you didn't know about but which you discover just because it is in the hymnal. Part of what you are buying when you buy a hymnal is the knowledge and experience of the editors. This can, obviously, be a bad thing. But it can also be a wonderful thing. Who here has never flipped through a hymnal and found some gem of a text or tune they had never seen or heard before?

Don't let this sway you from making your own hymnal. Do some homework. Look at the 1940, the Saint Michaels, Adoremus, the LBW... page by page. The 1940 alone has almost all the hymns you could need and/or want. Hymnary.org is an incredible resource for finding the gems Adam is talking about. Noel has already compiled an entire list here, with engraved ready pages in a PDF.

http://musicasacra.com/music/english-hymns-in-the-commons/

It is not hard to assemble a TOC (table of contents). If you work at it steady it could take a few weeks to get exactly what you want.

I recommend making a softcover that will last a few years, and then tweak the contents as you use it. When you are ready, do a hardbound edition.

@sergeantedward: Yes, it appears the Vatican II Hymnal is no longer in print, and Watershed is preparing a large successor book for 2015, the "Jogues Hymnal". In the meantime, they are offering the 200+ hymns from the V2 book as the Pope Francis Hymn Book, so that's an option. I'm glad to see that it adopted a conventional layout.

That's a heck of a lot easier than managing royalties.

Short answer - St. Michael.

Long answer - I am actually in the situation noted by the OP and I have suggested the St. Michael if we do move ahead with a major hymnal purchase. Right now, though, we are printing custom liturgy guides using Onelicense.net. It's not the most economical in the very long term, but at the same time it allows me complete freedom of choice and the opportunity to have everything in one place - Ordinary, hymns, antiphons, choir translations, etc.
Cons are the lack of a hymnal for weddings, funerals, and the cleanup/setup of replacing these liturgy guides, and the man hours to put the guides together in publisher.
The problem with buying a hymnal, as the pastor and I have discussed several times, is that we will still need some kind of liturgy guide sheet (our space would be very difficult to cover with hymn boards). Thus, we'd be asking the people to juggle a piece of paper, a missalette, and a hymnal through the course of the Mass. And what about an Ordinary setting (I use my own compositions and a composite setting from multiple sources)? If that's not in the hymnal and we don't print it every week, it has to be on a pew card or something, which is more juggling. What about antiphons? I use my own communion antiphons - those would have to be included somewhere...

For those reasons, I see custom printed guides as the best option (the most luxurious, at least). Right now church music in a state of flux with antiphons and hymns coexisting liturgically, and lots of new Ordinary settings being tested. It's difficult to capture that in a hymnal. So ultimately, what I look for in a hymnal is just a book full of good hymnody so I don't have to keep printing and discarding the same picture files - not some kind of all-inclusive music system that can lead my parish liturgically. St. Michael seems to me to be the best "handful of hymns" right now, with Lumen Christi close behind.

It's not the most economical in the very long term, but at the same time it allows me complete freedom of choice and the opportunity to have everything in one place - Ordinary, hymns, antiphons, choir translations, etc.

Protestant churches see the value in these as a way of ensuring active participation!
So the question becomes are they an expense or an investment?

I did the whole thing in Microsoft Word

So.... Does anyone know if the forthcoming St. Isaac Jogues hymnal is going to be

(1) St. Isaac Jogues Missal, Lectionary, & Gradual _PLUS_ a hymnal
or
(2) a separate hymnal

It's definitely something we want to consider, but ideally we don't want people have to juggle 2 books.

One thousand hymns in one book?!
Such a book would be one of a kind.

Actually....

The 1982 has 288 pieces in the Service Music section, and 720 hymns.
1008 pieces of music. And that book is fairly reasonably sized. And has SATB for most of the music.

Like people!

I'm still totally for individually printed worship aids. Protestants have an advantage using hymnals: they value the entirety of the hymn within the context of their worship service. Catholics don't. If we only need 2 or 3 verses to accompany the true Liturgical action, then more than half of the hymn verses are permanently ignored. Putting the tunes and texts into Finale (or other programs) gives total flexibility as to which 2 or 3 verses are to be sung, and can be custom arranged for the actual day, season, or use. Any investment in books that will only have less than 50% usage is a waste. It is a false economy, but one that the hymnal publishers will push the value of simply having a hard-cover hymnal sitting in the pews. I just don't see it.

It's really not all that difficult. After the melody lines with text are done in Finale and turned into graphics, everything else is MSWord. It take a bit of doing to get started, but once everything is in templates, it gets easier exponentially.