Sure Francis-so the entire hierarchy is responsible because they are the ones who represent the Church first, and they are the ones pushing/allowing OCP and GIA and whomever.

My point was and is that the rage is misplaced.

If I knew that, I'd be the Pope-ess! :-D

Just kidding!!! Geez, let's all take a chill-pill....gimme a big one!

Been to that basilica for TLM. Beautiful.

I think scripture could have used the addition of, "Inferior music will always be with you." Vatican II didn't create the problem, since music in the average parish was not that good to begin with. Many places simply went from one kind of mediocre music to another.

Let us pray!

I like the moniker "Melofant." It's funny and apt.
But if I changed "me" again I'd have to explain "me" all over again from the beginning.
BTW, the key of HMGW is actually meant to be rendered in D. I don't think that Landry can play barre chords, tee hee.

[...]

[responding to a note from the admin, which I have since removed:]

Hey now, RC, I've stayed on topic! And added some of my best bits....
I tell ya, I can't get no R-S-P-E-C-T.

See what I did there, Little Joe, combined Rodney Dangerfield and President Obama!

[Note: I've taken out some over-the-top language from the thread, along with responses to it. I did save a copy of the original text, in case anyone wants to get their prose back. -- admin]

kenstb

Then we would all have to refrain from posting our opinions!

V: Inferior music be with you always.
R: And with your spirit.

You forgot:
V. Good Morning.
R. Good Morning, Father.

There's also:

V. Havernice Day (P.T. Alleluia, alleluia.)
R. You too, Father (P.T. Alleluia, alleluia.)

We have a visiting priest occasionally that does that at every Mass. It is usually followed by something like:

R. You're welc... ... o_O

Chonak is most certainly right about the Basilica of SS. Peter and Paul in Lewiston, Maine as being a haven for fine sacred music. The music director there, Scott Vaillancourt, has worked long and many hard hours to gradually raise the standard for Mass. Prior to his arrival, there was the usual "bongo band" doing its thing with the regular song "ditties" making their weekly appearance.
The church boasts an outstanding 4 manual 66 rank Casavant Freres organ built in 1938. The instrument has been the central feature in a number of important concerts over the years. Both Marcel Dupre and Charles-Marie Courboin presented programs there!
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Portland. The program is now in the hands of a "people-pleasing", "Wa-Wa music loving" individual who will bring the once fine program to its knees. They had a young and enthusiastic musician with one of the most gorgeous baritone voices I have ever heard. This man left to take up a post at the Vatican. I combed the Cathedral's bulletins online for several weeks afterwards. Not one word of a well wish or gratitude for his devotion and service was expressed. His name just simply disappeared from the staff page one week and that was it. No wonder there is so much hostility coming from liturgical musicians these days!
Salieri is right too. The pre-Vatican II church had its share and own versions of the "sacro-pop" style. I just think that pre-Vatican II did not stoop to such a low level as has post-Vatican II.
I seriously doubt that Ratzinger would spit in anyone's face. He is too kind of a man to do that. But, did anyone notice the beaming expression of joy on his face when as Pope Benedict he was treated to the most robust congregational singing of "Christ Is Made the Sure Foundation" upon his visit to London's Westminster Abbey? I can just imagine what he was thinking to himself, perhaps, THIS is the way singing at Mass is meant to be!
But now, returning back to the "doldrums" of the American Catholic Church, don't expect to find that wonderful hymn by Henry Purcell in Oregon Catholic Press' "cutting-edge" publication "Breaking Bread". And for that matter, you will also not find "Savior of the Nations Come" for Advent or Stanford's wonderful hymn-tune "Engelberg". They have been systematically removed. I called one day and asked the senior editor, Randall DeBruyn why. His "wimpy" answer to justify the removal, "they were not being used that much". You would think that someone with a PhD in music theory might display a little more "guts" and support a move to better musical quality!

bfranck, the new Archbishop of Portland in Oregon spoke at the Sacred Music Colloquium in 2013. Since he sits on the board of that publishing house, perhaps he can bring some good influence to it.

Sir bfranck, you are indeed correct about the editorial incompetency of OCP. Having appeared before all of them (as an arranger/performer on behalf of one of their stable of "artists," don't ask please), with the sole exception of Dr. DeBruyn, it clearly amounted to an inquisition of dour fools. He's retired now, bless his soul.
What I find disturbing about your anecdotal encounter with him and his answer is that it verifies that those ridiculous survey sheets I fill out with extensive commentary attached are selectively used to justify the increasing scarcity of better hymnody, the scandalous absence of more than token chant, and the worst, THE WORST collection of Mass Ordinaries in any hymnal. And if anyone's bothered to look at the addition/subtraction ratio of new titles/old titles over the three years since MR3, they add very little, and have a curious penchant for removing the better hymns and their tunes. It's absolutely maddening, so I'll rant and rage with you.
2015 will be our last year of BB. It is too complicated to explain why we (four parish merge) cannot make the change for Advent, but I will live to see a real book in pews, finally, even if I have to work with Noel to craft our own!

I'm trying to move away from Breaking Bread, too and intended 2014 to be our last year... It's looking like it might have to be 2015.

...Yes. Please send all censored thoughts to censoredthoughts@myopus.com.

You told me it was, like Dr. Zmirak, the wine, whisky, women and song! And the white suit. You must have seen David Byrne in his BIG WHITE SUIT in the greatest concert film "Stop Making Sense."

Mass of St Francis by Paul Taylor is an excellent congregational English setting of the mass. The parish where I now work uses this and Mass of St Margaret Mary (written by the parish music co-ordinator). The one that was sung at World Youth Day Sydney was written by George Palmer, a mixed Latin/English setting, and has quietly died amongst Australian Parishes. It didn't make the cut for the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference selection of recommended mass settings.

Paul Taylor's Mass of St Francis is probably my favourite and preferred mass out of the recommended settings for use in Australia. It's very singable, congregations pick it up quickly and has a good, moving melody line. It's also not hard to play, only one octave (D to D) in range. It makes excellent service music. It plays well on organ, piano, or even with a guitar if you must have it. What more could you ask for in an English congregational setting? It has quickly become one of the most popular ones in Australia.

Bishop Anthony Fischer (known locally as Antonius Parramattensis, Piscator Hominorum) required all pilgrim groups to learn the ICEL Chant Mass when going on pilgrimmage with him. I've been told that lots of other English-speaking pilgrim groups started tagging along to his masses after hearing the chant mass. In all seriousness, all English-speaking parishes should adopt the ICEL chant mass and one or two other settings. At least then, we would all be able to sing the mass together at international gatherings. It would be even better if they could use the Latin originals!

It's good to have a well-balanced, healthy music diet.
Both of my parishes are insistent in have a bland diet of a single setting, with almost no hope of ever having a chant anything. Although with our upcoming Schola Cantorum we can at least try it one of these days. I hope to strike some balance between languages. Definitely leaving the Kyrie in Greek and Angus Dei in Latin for appetizers.

I'm watching with interest the answers that are given here.. There are a couple of things to consiyet a couple of things to consider. 11 is that this particular song was written during the seventies. That was the time of experimentation.. People were doing the best that they could. Organisms were very expensive. And so guitar masses became very popular. Along with guitar masses were people that knew nothing about liturgical music. I should know. I was one of them ( Yes... I even sang Blowin' inches Wind. Lol). As time went on, someone came up with the idea that this was a marketable field. And so were born the capitalistic hymns. And so we're born capitalistic hymns.... hymns for profit. Organists were phased out completely and and the turgical experts were created. In addition, the music that is being written these days either centers on politics social Justice or the like.. If we listen to the young people and what they listen to and want to sing, you'll find that they are leaning more and more towards praising God, even if it's music that's horrible. Vatican II was trying to give the praise of God back to the people. After Trent the peoples parts were all given to the tha altar boys or the choirs. The music had become too sophisticated for the people to sing. The mass in Latin, and the average person did not speak Latin. Vatican II gave the worship back to the people.. After all, the original choir were the people. I've always taught the paris musicians that if the people are not responding, either it was too difficult, or it had become a performance. So if you look at what comes out in Oregon Catholic press or other other publishers, it seems like they are catering to the composers. It's composers that compose all of this politically correct and controversial music . Rather than praising God, it's all about us and how good we are. Musicians have gotten away from the away from the praises of God.. They've gotten away from singable melodies. So if you wonder why people sing to catchy little tunes, it's because it's their praise and that's the only thing that they can sing. When it comes to writing music for the congregation, we must get back To giving the people something that they can sing. We must give them something that is theologically sound.. And it should not be something that is difficult for the people to understand. It's that simple.

Remember that there is a difference between music suitable for the Mass and music suitable for devotions. That's a very good start.

I know people complain about the saccharine hymns from before the 1960s, but at least they weren't saccharine AND jazzy (AND heretical), as many of these "hymns" are today.

I don't understand the general disregard for this song.

Do you really have a problem with this song in particular? Or do you not like the folk genre and are just firing ammunition at one of the best exemplars of the folk genre?

It makes no sense to me that people are complaining about this song, as it does nearly everything that trads ask contemporary music to do, other than be in a different style. Nearly all the words are from scripture, it's easy to sing, and it has some compositional complexity such that I find it interesting to play.

actually, the 'gentle woman' is The Great Queen in Battle Array... next to God, she is the one you would not want to mess with...