That Particular Rumor
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,359
    Late yesterday afternoon I did a bad thing by going off topic in a discussion of binders for choir members. Chonak suggested that I start a new discussion of my off-topic subject, so here it is.

    This past Thursday the rumor mills began churning out stories about the immanent departure of Cardinal Cañizares Llovera as prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, to be replaced by Archbishop Piero Marini.

    That particular rumor died down over the weekend, but on Monday it was ratcheted up a notch with the story that Cardinal Rouco Varela of Madrid had flown to Rome late last week in an attempt to try to head off the appointment of Cardinal Cañizares as the next Archbishop of Madrid.

    For those who read Spanish, this about the rumored Madrid appointment:

    http://www.periodistadigital.com/religion/espana/2013/06/29/francisco-comunica-a-rouco-que-canizares-sera-su-sucesor-religion-iglesia-espana-vaticano-papa-sistach.shtml

    On Monday afternoon the Los Angeles Times ran a story about Archbishop Marini:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-popes-benedict-francis-20130701,0,4862290.story

    If Cardinal Cañizares does become the next Archbishop of Madrid, on next June 29, God willing, we will witness an event that has occurred only a few times in the 2000 year history of the Church - a prelate receiving a third pallium from the Holy Father.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Cardinal Cañizares departure does not necessitate Archbishop Marini's promotion. Those are two different, if inter-related, decisions. There are several archbishops qualified to succeed Cardinal Cañizares.
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,016
    I hope it would be +Ranjith, but I'm usually wrong about such things.
    Thanked by 2Hilary Cesare IanW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,373
    Who knows? We may all be surprised. I know that when Pope Francis said he never wanted the job, I agreed that I never wanted him to have it, either. But I suppose that was because of my admiration for Benedict XVI, not anything against Francis. Popes, they come, they go. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,733
    Thompson has it exactly right: Marini vecchio would be a disaster. He made papal liturgies look ridiculous, with the hideous vestments in which he put the last two Popes and with foolishness like the unfortunately memorable dancers in India waving incense bowls. I can't imagine that the "creativity" behind such circus acts is appealing to Pope Francis, but of course anything is possible.

    Certainly the old-style liberal iconoclasts who hated Pope Benedict would love to see Abp. Marini as prefect of CDW wrecking the liturgy again as they pass from the scene. They remind me of "Cousin Bette" in Balzac's novel: she was so determined to see her family's downfall that even on her death bed she connived to lead her relatives right into their moral weaknesses.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 462
    Certainly the old-style liberal iconoclasts who hated Pope Benedict would love to see Abp. Marini as prefect of CDW wrecking the liturgy again as they pass from the scene. They remind me of "Cousin Bette" in Balzac's novel: she was so determined to see her family's downfall that even on her death bed she connived to lead her relatives right into their moral weaknesses.


    Agreed. After watching the former bishop of Rochester, I call this Scorched Earth Liturgy.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    OTOH, Richard, one has to wonder whether the papal liturgist/MC has a plethora of local political concerns to slog through. What comes to mind are the hundreds of huge event liturgies under Bl. JPII. Some of them may well have been ridiculous, as in India or Papa New Guinea. Others, such as the beatification of S.J. Diego were stunningly authentic and beautiful. Such is life. And one must recall it wasn't all that long ago when, I believe under Marini II, National's Stadium "happened" immediately following the incredible Vespers in the crypt of the Shrine under Latona. And the papal Mass in WYD in Australia, while showing some RotR influence, still had syncretistic (is that the correct term, Kathy?) elements well on display.
    I wouldn't worry about strummers in St. Peter's too much if Piero gets CDW. I would worry if Guido gets a dead fish in a newspaper soon at his door.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    I would worry if Guido gets a dead fish in a newspaper soon at his door.


    Nothing to worry about. I'm sure this just means his subscription to NCR has arrived.
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Quick
  • Chrism
    Posts: 824
    I would hope that the Secretariat of State would prepare a better media rollout of a Piero Marini prefecture than, say, the suspension of the excommunication of Richard Williamson. However, in all likelihood this is a psychological feint. We rumor Marini, and then when you get, say, Trautman (or, for that matter, Whoopi Goldberg), you feel relieved.

    But what exactly is there to be concerned about? What great work of Cardinal Cañizares will his transfer interrupt? What would a Prefect Marini really do differently? A second Consilium would herd hordes of hundreds of thousands to make sacrifices of time and distance to attend the legitimate offering of the EF. Further attempts to restrict the EF would be ignored after Summorum Pontificum as ultra vires. Marini's great damage came as Papal MC and as head of Eucharistic Congresses, where he had a free hand to mislead by example. Imprisoned in the world of text, would Marini show the same foul eloquence as his mentor? Do we really expect Francis to repeal or modify Redemptionis Sacramentum?

    Yes, there could be new rites galore. A provisional Eucharistic Prayer MCMLXVIII to allow divorced deaf dwarves who like balloons to achieve their legitimate aspirations. But again, whatever damage is done, there is now an escape hatch.
    Thanked by 2chonak JulieColl
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    dwarves
    ?
    Good Lord, where is your sensitivity? I'm sure you meant "heighth challenged." No harm, no foul.
  • melo,

    Your post really made me think, and indeed I am outraged. Who uses that word, seriously?

    ..."heighth?"

    IS OUTRAGE!!!
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,066
    Hopefully a less polarizing candidate will be proposed and accepted. "Marini wars" is bad for the Church.
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,743
    Kind of reminds one of that Two Marini Martini lunch.
    Thanked by 2Mark Husey JulieColl
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Andrew, your fraternal correction doth diminisheth (my) dunderheaded dormition, dwarving (oops) decorum, docility deigning duty into doody. Diversion declared, dare I depart, downwards drooping, doorway stooping to die in daylight's daze!
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    dagnabit
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Wanna go on the road? I propose we make "dagnabit" said in Ecclesial Latin, a theme word for Indy. "Abit" means to depart, right? So we're departing the dag, which in Cockney is a dog (see the film "Snatch" for confirmation.) That means we're putting out the dog implying that the party is high class!
    So, AW, come up with the rest of the sentence.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    So, AW, come up with the rest of the sentence.


    Dagnabit, dude, I am no minstrel
    here to joke and prove my wits 'til
    you are sated in your need
    for the jokes on which you feed.

    Make your own rhymes, you can do it
    if you just get one round tuit.

    Thanked by 2IanW Chris Allen
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    .
    Thanked by 2francis JulieColl
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,412
    MHI, you know how I feel about free verse...
    Thanked by 1francis
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    AW, I suspect 'twas alliteration that killed the beast.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Free verse? As in, verse in the commons?
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • K: that's more properly called free-range verse.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,743
      what's worse
      than verse
    that does not seem to rhyme?
      rehearse
      this curse!
    (you'll need it in due time.)

    free verse
    this
    no need to ask
    copyleft
    is just about
    right, copy?
    Thanked by 2Kathy Adam Wood
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Vacancy at the CDW?
    Please, my friends, don't let it trouble you
    The rumour which induced such fright
    May be, not wrong, but just half right
    Think, while you stir me that martini,
    What if we got the right Marini?
    Piero fumes 'I thought I'd grab it!
    But Guido's got the job! Dagnabit'
    While shouts of joy rise from this forum
    Summorum! and Pontificorum!
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,862
    Is it bad that on reading this I read 'dagnabit' as "dah-nya-beet"?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,393
    Maybe it will be Bp Trautman.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,862
    Excuse me? That's 'Trautfolk'.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,373
    That's Trautperson. ;-)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,733
    Trautperoffspring.
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,743
    Yes, but at least Trautwhoever should be someone who is trustworthy :-)
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 633
    Well that explains why the wine cellar is empty. :D