2012 June 24, Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, is a * SUNDAY * this year
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, June 24, ABC, Responsorial Psalm    —    VIGIL MASS

    Here are some sample scores (numerous composers have generously contributed scores):

    Organist (Sunday) as found in the Vatican II Hymnal

    Organist (Vigil Mass) as found in the Vatican II Hymnal

    image

    Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, June 24, ABC, Responsorial Psalm
    R. (14) I praise you, for I am wonderfully made.
    Ps. 139:1b-3, 13-14ab, 14c-15

    R. I praise you, for I am wonderfully made.
    O LORD, you have probed me, you know me:
    you know when I sit and when I stand;
    you understand my thoughts from afar.
    My journeys and my rest you scrutinize,
    with all my ways you are familiar.
    R. I praise you, for I am wonderfully made.
    Truly you have formed my inmost being;
    you knit me in my mother's womb.
    I give you thanks that I am fearfully, wonderfully made;
    wonderful are your works.
    R. I praise you, for I am wonderfully made.
    My soul also you knew full well;
    nor was my frame unknown to you
    When I was made in secret,
    when I was fashioned in the depths of the earth.
    R. I praise you, for I am wonderfully made.

    Nativity of Saint John the Baptist, June 24, ABC, Responsorial Psalm    —    VIGIL MASS
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    Didn't this also happen pretty recently? (Or I'm just getting old...)
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    ...and a perfect day to teach your singers about Ut queant laxis, Guido, and solfege!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    6,11,6,5. That's the progression (beginning at a different point in relation to leap year) that any particula day and date coincide.
    Thanked by 1marajoy
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    I'm pretty sure I was at a CMAA colloquium the last time this happened... I'd have to calculate that out...
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Since this falls on Monday this year, and as a Solemnity I think it ranks higher than a Sunday in Ordinary time, should a Sunday evening Mass on June 23 be celebrated as the Vigil of John the Baptist rather than the 12th Sunday in Ordinary Time?
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    In a normal parish setting where there is a Sunday Evening mass, this should remain the mass of the Sunday for pastoral reasons. The usual parishioners technically will not have fulfilled their Sunday obligation if a vigil mass of the Solemnity is put on.
  • lmassery
    Posts: 424
    Methinks that the evening mass would fulfill the Sunday obligation even if it was celebrated as the nativity
    Thanked by 3Andrew Motyka MHI jpal
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 422
    I kind of dismissed this question at first but now, with some more discussion, my opinion may be changing. Interested to hear a definite answer.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Any Mass fulfills the obligation- Canon 1248
    1. The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.
    Thanked by 3ronkrisman Andrew Motyka David Sullivan
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    Aaron is correct. There is no precept in Canon Law that stipulates precisely what Mass or reading you need to fulfill your obligation, only that you attend on the particular day.

    However, Sunday trumps everything. Whatever Mass you celebrate on Sunday trumps anything that happens on the following day.

    Except Christmas. You still have the Christmas Vigil Mass on the 4th Sunday of Advent.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Andrew, is there something in writing that explains that Sunday trumps everything with the exception of Christmas?
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    I'm paraphrasing the Table of Liturgical Days according to their order of precedence from the Universal Norms on the Calendar. It's in the Missal.

    More specifically, Norms # 60:

    If several celebrations fall on the same day, the one that holds the highest rank according to the Table of Liturgical Days is observed.

    Since the Nativity of the Lord is higher on the Table than Sundays of Advent, you celebrate Christmas in the evening of Sunday, December 24.

    I don't mean "Sunday trumps everything," meaning it overrides solemnities that fall on Sunday, by the way. I mean for the purposes of anticipated Masses the evening before the day.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    When Holy Thursday falls on a Sunday, which takes precedence?
    Thanked by 2Bobby Bolin Andrew Motyka
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    New calendarist heretic! Is outrage. ;-)
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Andrew Motyka
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Using your example, a Solemnity such as June 24 Nativity of John the Baptist falls on a Monday, it ranks #3 in the First Class table of liturgical days, above #6-Second class Sundays in Ordinary Time.

    The current Ordo here reads the Vigil Mass of the Nativity of John is celebrated either before or after First Vespers of the solemnity. Does this not imply that the Vigil Mass would have to take place on Sunday evening?
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    I believe you could celebrate either the Vigil Mass or the Sunday in Ordinary Time. It would be unusual to celebrate the vigil in such a case, but I believe allowed.

    And it would fulfill your Sunday obligation.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,117
    The only reasons propers of the evening Mass should NOT be for the same commemoration as vespers is a homilist who doesn't want to have to prepare a different homily or an MD who doesn't want to have to prepare different music. Those are not good reasons.
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