Do people know about this guy? also need a link
  • Beth
    Posts: 53
    Hello, The other night my friend and I( who just finished his STL) were looking through ocp's music issue for some horror hymns and found this guy
    http://www.ocp.org/artists/185 most know for his song Ashes (which in our opinion supports the Pelagianism heresy) also the dude seems to like speaking for CAll to Action
    Also, I'm looking for the article Jeffery Tucker wrote a while back on the dangers of OCP
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 311
    Is this the link you were looking for?
    http://65.36.178.3/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4265

    I was disappointed to see that, just one month after such a great issue of "Pastoral Music" on Gregorian Chant, the following issue contained calendar listings for Call to Action events. I don't think PM has ever listed a CMAA event, at least not in recent memory. I guess they think CtA is more in line with the mind of the Church than the CMAA?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Actually I think Bob Hurd writes the best music out of the major songwriters. It's interesting to listen to, as pop music goes. The moderators will have to give yay or nay, but I think we can do better than bashing people or their music directly. We're better than that.
  • I agree that one should not directly attack a given composer, but individual hymns seem fair game. Another of his compositions, "Anthem," is to me the paragon of bad hymnody: unfollowable syncopation, vacuous theology, affrontive politics, and a dated style that begs to be laid to rest on an orange shag carpet. Even still, in the world of church musicians, little surprises me anymore. That's why I generally prefer liturgical music written by people who have been dead for a while.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,618
    I died years ago. That is why most of my new music is in latin.

    No, all kidding aside. It is our responsibility to JUDGE the music of our day, because this responsibility has been severely neglected if not outrightly abandoned by the those who should. As I mentioned somewhere else on this board, I took a publisher to task over a "Creation Spirituality" hymn that appeared in one of OCP's hymnals years ago. I simply sent my comparison of the text to the fundamentals of CS as written by Matthew Fox. The 'hymn' was removed from the next edition. Everyone must realize that judging content has NOTHING to do with judging a composer.

    "But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." Matthew 18:15-17
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    What does it profit to do so here, though? In person, people can't stop me from bringing up bad Catholic music. I'm always making a jerk of myself when I talk to someone who doesn't support sacred music. But does it profit us anything here to engage in a hate-fest of Hurd and his works, with no dissenting opinion? This is the same fight we had over Haugen some time ago. No one here is going to willingly use Ashes or Anthem. So there's no point in bringing it up.

    Although let me say for the sake of discussion that it'd be great to use Hurd's paraphrase of "Parce Domine" and then, when people love it, switch to the real thing and tell people "Oh, Hurd just released a new version of that song in Spanish, let's sing it! Oh, but we don't have the accompaniment for the Spanish version, so we have to sing it without piano..."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    Intelligent critique, the more specific the better--the Church needs this right now. But I agree with The Thurifer that it's best to critique hymns rather than people. I don't see the point of attacking human beings--although in the case of Conry and Cooney I think it would be a public service if someone went through 10 egregious hymns of each of them and pointed out the errors.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,618
    Gavin:

    The profit comes from the "mouth of two or three witnesses" and then the mouth of the church itself. And it is always good to be specific about the content you are discussing and leave the composer's name out of it unless questioned.

    e.g., When I presented my comparison to the publisher, I did so by first going to my own Archbishop with my concern. It was all carried out in formal letters. He then directed (in a formal letter) me to "approach the publisher with charity'. The introductory line of my letter to the publisher went something like this:

    I am writing to you at the recommendation of Archbishop _____. (Then my comparison was presented.) Also, I went to the publisher, not the composer, although it was the composer who sent me a four page defense on the position of the text as the publisher quickly passed the hot potato onto him.

    That is how one, in a sense, speaks on behalf of the church. Of course, I will grant you, this was a gross and obvious errancy, and it becomes more difficult to effect change when things are not so black and white.
  • Beth
    Posts: 53
    Thanks for the link Oblash, that's really all I wanted.
    I don't mean to bash the dude, it's just pointing out the error of that particular hymn.
    I do think it's necessary spread knowledge so that others may make better choices. I honesty didn't know about this dude at all until this hymn was pointed out.
    I think that if we can bring up errors of the day like this particular hymn and discuss why and how it is erroneous ;then we have a better understanding on how to take action to remedy the problem.
    Francis, thanks for the idea on writing the publisher. I was thinking over doing this myself but was unsure how to go about it.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,618
    Beth:

    Sure thing. I think it is most important to remember humility and charity is key when presenting, otherwise polarization quickly ensues.
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 311
    A. We're talking about the work of Tom Conry, not Bob Hurd.

    B. Mountain. Molehill. Nevertheless, I removed my jab.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    AHA! Tom Conry! Yes, I was wrong about that, but I meant my comment about Conry. For pop music it's quite good.
  • I suspect most of you are way too young ('ceptin' for Francis, me and CharlesW) to know just who the heck Tom Conry is. Conry is an anachronism; I've mentioned elsewhere his own past penchant for his self-identification as being a Berthold Brecht of American post V2 liturgical music, with a strong pinch of Kurt Weill for good measure. He was, even in '79 when Ashes and Anthem hit stride, bellicosity personified. He latched onto Oosterhuis/Huijbers like a rhemora and NPM and OCP and Anaheim CCD catapulted him to the forefront. One has to remember the times, the post Vietnam hubris of the left was strong, especially in BerriganChurch. Conry was the anti-Landrey, anti-SLJ's. He wasn't nice, he wasn't palatable, he wasn't equivocating and he let the world know he knew it all and better than you and anyone else. He bounced from Newman Center to Newman Center and, like all things NALR/G&P, is vestigially represented in OCP's BB/MI. The comparison with Mathew Fox is spot on. Rory Cooney is likely the last of his philosophical successors.
    Bob Hurd is decidedly not in the same camp as Mr. Conry.
    All that said, there are some Conry gems that still have merit that I'll still program: I Will Not Die and I Will Lift Up My Eyes. But I'm more likely to program "Let there be peace on earth" or "How Great thou art" than I am "Anthem." That is to say, never. And I'm still trying to figure out how one can get Psalm 23 to sound so angry? Oh, I forgot, it's Conry's setting. Nevermind.
  • Can you imagine? I attended an NPM National in the late '90's and Berrigan was a keynote speaker, for the closing address in fact, and Conry was the "warm-up act."
  • Actually, I was going to weigh in on the musical compositinos such as Anthem because my parish has bought into the OCP marketing ploy hook, line and sinker, to the point of going to OCP-sponsored musical conferences. Unfortunately, these conferences only serve to promote OCP and not anything remotely having to do with sacred music.

    When I have chosen music, I have examined the hymns in line with the parameters that the Church gives us, along with, what I call, the Benedictine (as in Pope Benedict) sound test. Does it offer the Triune God fitting worship, or does it celebrate the community? it is focused on I/Me/Us/We, or is it centered on HE? If the songs fails on one or both questions, then, it is not fitting for use in the Mass.

    Songs like "Ven al Banquete/Come to the Feast" and "Amor de Dios/O Love of God" focus more on the community, rather than on God. Plus, the settings are good for light pop, but, not for the Holy Sacrifice. Unfortunately, these songs are contrived and for the masses and not at all suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It upset me to have "Ven al Banquete" used as the entrance for Holy Thursday and Corpus Christi. The song really doesn't convey what the mystery of the Holy Eucharist is about.

    Forgive me for asking, but, wasn't Conry the one who wrote "I Myself am the Bread of Life". I used to like that song when I was much younger until I dissected the lyrics and found them to be questionable and not at all about what the Euchrist truly is.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,368
    benedictgal,

    You're thinking of Rory Cooney.
  • Thanks for the correction.