Use of Gloria at a Wedding Mass during Advent
  • I am cantoring a friend's wedding that falls on a Saturday at 2p.m. This happens to be the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, which is not dispensed (so the parish where the wedding is being held is having an IC mass in the morning before the wedding and their regular Saturday vigil for 2nd Sunday of Advent at the regularly scheduled time.) So do we sing the Gloria at the wedding? After reading the Roman Missal's instructions on wedding masses, it says the Penitential Rite is omitted and the Gloria is said/sung. However, this is the answer that MY parish priest gave me:

    The Gloria would NOT be sung because the wedding mass is not being said during a regular Sunday liturgy or during the Immaculate Conception Mass. Furthermore, even IF the wedding mass were taking place, say, during Ordinary Time on a Saturday at 2 p.m., in our diocese, Saturday vigil masses MUST be held no earlier than 4 p.m. Since the Gloria is only said/sung on Saturday vigils/Sunday masses and on feasts/solemnities (Holy Days, etc.), the Gloria would not be sung in this case.

    Can anyone shed some light on this?
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,114
    I think you answered your own question. :) The missal says the gloria is said/sung at wedding Masses. Boom. End of story.

    You might try to gently point out the instructions in the missal to your pastor, since I believe it was changed with the new missal. I've run into this problem too, so you're not alone. Best of luck!
    Thanked by 1taggart81
  • Thanks, Ben! I figured if they were going to make such a big change that it would have been better explained in the rubrics. So does the wedding mass take precedence over the fact that we're in Advent?
  • Nuptial Masses are prohibited on Solemnities and some Sundays, including the Sundays of Advent (GIRM 372). The parish should have suggested either a wedding ceremony only, or another date. Perhaps the couple, even now, would accept a ceremony without the Mass. If the Mass is said despite the rubrics, then I recommend singing the Gloria, since it is prescribed for the Solemnity.
  • Technically, they shouldn't be having a Nuptial Mass that day since it is a solemnity.

    If you're going to break one rule, by having a nuptial mass that day, then you might as well do the whole nuptial mass.
  • However, unfortunately they are in this irregular position due to the pastor's irregular reading of the rubrics. I say, do exactly what the pastor says, since you already are, and he's the boss.
  • The Rite of Marriage (1991) is the latest edition, and would be normative except where contradicted by the 3rd Roman Missal. Here's how the Archdiocese of Indianapolis wrote their rules, which are more elastic than my previous post:

    ♦ If the marriage is celebrated on a Sunday or solemnity, the Mass of the day is used with the nuptial blessing and the special final blessing according to the circumstances.
    ♦ When the wedding Mass may not be held, one of the readings from the texts provided for the marriage celebration (nos. 67-105) may be chosen, except from Holy Thursday to Easter, on the solemnities of Epiphany, Ascension, Pentecost, or the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ, or on holy days of obligation.
    ♦ However, the Rite of Marriage outside Mass may be celebrated on the above days except during the Easter Triduum.
    ♦ On the Sundays of the Christmas season and in Ordinary Time, the entire wedding Mass may be used in Masses that are not parish Masses.
    ♦ When a marriage is celebrated during Advent or Lent or other days of penance, the special nature of these liturgical seasons are to be considered [Rite of Marriage, no. 11].

    http://www.archindy.org/worship/files/Liturgical Calendar for the Archdiocese 2013.pdf

    As to the Gloria specifically, it should be sung, being part of both the nuptial Mass, and the Mass of the Immaculate Conception.

    Mr. Malton is, of course, correct that the pastor or officiant is in charge. In the poster's situation, I would be ready with knowledge of the rubrics, as well as the flexibility and good will to make the liturgy a sign and instrument of unity. On the other hand, parish music directors are usually asked to help with wedding policies, printed or not; MD's also learn about wedding dates far in advance. They should inform or remind their pastors and curates early on, so that the betrothed couple receives clear and consistent guidelines.
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • Well, this Saturday (tomorrow, when the wedding is scheduled) is technically NOT a Sunday of Advent because it's being held at 2 p.m. In our diocese 4 p.m. is the earliest a parish can hold Saturday Vigil mass to satisfy the normal Sunday mass obligation. My question, then, would be this: since this parish's Immaculate Conception mass will be tonight (vigil) and tomorrow morning (before the wedding), does the Solemnity extend throughout the entire 24-hour period on Saturday?
  • This wedding mass might also have been specially approved by our Bishop...but that is information I'm not privy to. In that case, I will comply with the directives given to me by the Bishop and/or celebrating priest. I was just curious about this unique situation in case it ever comes up again.
  • In this case, for the purpose of choosing the Mass texts, the solemnity extends until 4pm, when the anticipatory Mass for Sunday is offered.

    I wouldn't call this situation unique. This year, a couple called me to plan their wedding music for a Sat. eve Mass in the Easter season. They had already picked out the readings with the pastor, who was to officiate. He forgot about the precedence of the Sunday Mass for Paschaltide. I didn't press for any change. Another time, when I received a new listing of a daytime wedding for Sat., Nov 2nd, 2013 (All Soul's Day), I reminded the rectory that the ritual would be constrained by the rubrics for the day.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,765
    As an aside, the rules for the liturgical calendar are *independent* of the rules for the obligation to attend Mass on the Holy Day or on the Sunday.

    According to canon lawyer Ed Peters, a Catholic could attend a Saturday evening Mass (celebrated with Sunday propers) and count it toward the Holy Day obligation. Then he would have to attend another Mass for the Sunday obligation.
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,757
    Also, to tease out Chris's tangent, if Assumption fell on a Saturday in August, the propers for second vespers and the 4pm Mass would still be for the Assumption, not for the Sunday of Ordinary Time of the next day, because Assumption ranks higher in the table of precedence. The USCCB staff used to get this wrong when they prepared the calendar for the US, but they finally fixed it a couple of years ago after years of people noticing the recurring errors in this regard. In today's case, however, Sundays of Advent have precedence over Immaculate Conception.

    That said, fulfillment of preceptual obligation is not tied to specific propers.
  • ♦ If the marriage is celebrated on a Sunday or solemnity, the Mass of the day is used with the nuptial blessing and the special final blessing according to the circumstances.
    ♦ When the wedding Mass may not be held, one of the readings from the texts provided for the marriage celebration (nos. 67-105) may be chosen, except from Holy Thursday to Easter, on the solemnities of Epiphany, Ascension, Pentecost, or the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ, or on holy days of obligation.


    Go ArchIndy! These two points are key. If you have a nuptial Mass today, on Immaculate Conception, you must use the readings and prayers of Immaculate Conception. You may change one reading, but that's it.

    Dioceses typically disallow weddings on Holy Days of Obligation, but I don't think it's a universal ban. A few years ago, All Saints fell on a Saturday, and the obligation was lifted. We had a wedding that day, and we had to use the readings and prayers of All Saints. I used All Saints music, too. It worked well!
  • The USCCB staff used to get this wrong when they prepared the calendar for the US, but they finally fixed it a couple of years ago after years of people noticing the recurring errors in this regard. In today's case, however, Sundays of Advent have precedence over Immaculate Conception.

    Right. What always threw me, though, was why, in the evening of Saturday, November 1, we were to use the anticipatory Mass of All Souls. I would think that the Solemnity trumps the Commemoration, but it's just one of those rules-outside-the-rules. I love the Church.
  • Is there a rubric which states, clearly, that Mass celebrated after Vespers I (or in the evening when Vespers I would be observed) uses the propers of the following day? This is not a troll question, I know it has been discussed before, but I cannot find such a rubric all the same.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,765
    There probably isn't such a rubric, since the start times for vigil Masses and first Vespers are a diocesan matter.
  • Is there a rubric which states, clearly, that Mass celebrated after Vespers I (or in the evening when Vespers I would be observed) uses the propers of the following day?

    Not only is there not a rubric, but I don't think this statement is completely accurate. For example, a Mass celebrated in the evening of Saturday, January 5 this year, even if it comes after Vespers, should be the Vigil Mass of the Epiphany, not the Mass During the Day.

    The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight (General Norms for the Liturgical Year #3). Sundays and Solemnities begin in the evening of the previous day, but there is no universal time for that. As Richard said, that's up to the individual diocese.

    In practice, it's probably wise to start each liturgical Sunday or Solemnity with First Vespers, but there exceptions, and it is a guideline of good sense, not a hard and fast rule.
  • No, no, what I mean is why should Mass be celebrated in the evening using the propers of the day Mass, when there is no proper vigil Mass?

    The moden rubrics clearly call for vespers to take precedence according to the rank of the offices (Calendar Norms 61) but there is no mention of Mass. The choice of Mass (GIRM 353 etc) call for the Mass to be of the day. Taken together these are a bit of a contradiction. Festive Masses are widely offered in the evening, but there seems to be no provision for doing so.

    The traditional view started the liturgical day in the evening, and in a most ancient (and I believe non-Roman) view the calendar day itself started at sundown. Certainly in the traditional rite the default start of every observance was vespers (unless impeded by "second vespers" of the preceding more important day). But with only one exception (later two or three) Mass is not offered in the evening.

    In the modern rite the liturgical and canonical day starts at 12:00am local time, and Mass is (apparently) offered at any time of day.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • The traditional view started the liturgical day in the evening, and in a most ancient (and I believe non-Roman) view the calenday day itself started at sundown. Certainly in the traditional rite the default start of every observance was vespers (unless impeded by "second vespers" of the preceding more important day). Besides, with only one exception (later two or three) Mass is not offered in the evening.

    The Jews and the Orthodox still start the day at Sundown. However Mass was according to my knowledge never offered purposely in the evening, but after None (on Vigils, Ember Days, Ferial Days of Advent and Lent, Good Friday, Holy Saturday), after Sext (on Simple feasts and Ordinary Ferias) or after Terce (on Sundays and Feast days).

    Given however the fact, that on Ember Saturdays, Holy Saturday and Pentecost Vigil the Prophecies take quite a long time, Mass itself could well be prolonged into the night, especially if Holy Orders (and/or Baptisms on Holy Saturday and Pentecost Vigil) are administered. Due to this the fourth Sunday of Advent has no proper chants in the oldest manuscripts; the chants of the later manuscripts which later found their way into the Missale and Graduale Romanum, are adapted from the foregoing Ember Saturday.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen