Help! Trapped in musical purgatory in Buffalo
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Hi. I just moved to the Amherst/Williamsville area. We have visited most of the parishes around here and, without naming names, it's been one musical train wreck after another. The worst was yesterday when the Alleluia before the gospel reading was in fact a vacation bible school call-and-response song. Can anyone recommend a parish in the Buffalo area that features fine and traditional music? Thanks in advance.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    What about the cathedral?
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Thanks. Indeed we will likely expand our travelling radius in search of non-fluffy music/liturgy. I was hoping someone with direct knowledge of the area could save us time and our ears. :)
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 119
    Scott - I live in the Amherst/Williamsville area and I know what (and probably who) you are talking about. I am the DM at St. Josaphat's Church in Cheektowaga (corner William and Peoria). We keep it very "traditional" and have a very orthodox pastor. We continue to work toward providing the best possible sacred music for our liturgies. It's still a work in progress, but I will tell you that CMAA has been a great inspiration to us, as have many of the participants in this forum. We expect to be rolling out the Vatican II Hymnal soon - probably the first and only parish in our diocese to do so. I hope you will check us out. That being said, keep in mind that I am on vacation the next couple of weekends :-). I'll be back the last weekend in July, so if you come to our church then, please feel free to stop by the choir loft after mass to say hello. Welcome to Buffalo!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I will tell you that CMAA has been a great inspiration to us, as have many of the participants in this forum.

    Sometimes I think the greatest "work" of the CMAA is this forum.

    Every time I visit here I learn something new. And I am always inspired when I hear what everyone else is doing to help promote Sacred music in our Catholic Churches.
    Thanked by 5Ben CHGiffen Mark M. teachermom24 benedictgal
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    I agree with JMO....This forum has made many realize that they aren't an island unto themselves. It's given many a source of information, a place to exchange ideas, and even a place to vent their frustrations to like-minded colleagues. When I first started out, something like this was greatly needed. This forum is, indeed, so incredibly important.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen E_A_Fulhorst
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Musical purgatory? What presumption! What makes you so sure your torment will end?

    ... but seriously, kudos deserved by all the productive members of this forum.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Thanks Steve Q. Will certainly try to visit this weekend (Aug 5th). P.S. You wouldn't know of any schola chant groups in the area?
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 119
    None that I know of, Scott. (Please let me know if you find one!) My fledgling choir does some chant, some hymn singing, some polyphony.

    To get an idea of how chant is viewed in our diocese, check out this article in the July issue of the diocesan newspaper. It includes mostly quotes from the diocesan music director, ostensibly to promote the use of chant. But IMHO, it only succeeds in providing numerous excuses for most parishes not to use chant. I am working on a response to the article now. Reactions are welcome from all.

    Regarding the cathedral, take a look at their music selections for the Lent and Easter seasons posted here on the local Church Musicians Guild web site. I would be interested in your reaction to those as well.

    Although the liturgical music in the Buffalo diocese may leave much to be desired, we do have many magnificent churches that I would invite you to check out. Among my favorites are: Our Lady of Victory Basilica, St. Louis Church, Corpus Christi, St. Stanislaus, Our Lady of Fatima Shrine (Lewiston), St. Ann's, and also St. Joseph's Cathedral just to name a few. Most of those churches have great organs as well as quite respectable organists.

    I would look forward to meeting you. May God bless your quest.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    You're right, Steve. That article, starting with the unfortunate title, paints a picture of chant as a historical curiosity. Interesting for those musty old cathedrals and musical experts who have the time to learn a difficult notation - by implication NOT interesting for the new, modern church.

    Which doesn't line up with our experience of singing with musical novices in modern churches.

    I would admit that traditional sacred music does tend to sound better in resonant, unamplified spaces. But to claim that it's more difficult? Not at all. Yes, it's a slightly new notation - but even experienced singers prefer chant in square notes. I've tested it.

    Carl
    Thanked by 2E_A_Fulhorst Steve Q
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Yes, it's a slightly new notation - but even experienced singers prefer chant in square notes. I've tested it.


    Edifying to read. Writing as an unexperienced plebe more familiar with instrumental music than singing, I had the same reaction to square notes. Our schola even writes in harmonization using neumes. Heh.

    (Hint: Use pencil on a printed page.)
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I thought maestro Lukas walked the tightrope rather deftly, Carl. And as regards his ordos, one must presume there was (vieliecht) a con-current Bachfest Konzert prior to Easter, after which a rather broad and enriched variety of choral chestnuts and new works were programmed. Looks healthier in the choir loft in Buffalo than it does on the stadium turf of the Bills.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • aldrich
    Posts: 230
    Our schola even writes in harmonization using neumes


    It happened once that our organist wanted us to sing a harmonisation to the chant "Audi, benigne Conditor," which was in modern notation. So the lead cantor took out his pen and paper and re-wrote the harmonisation in square notes. I looked on and dictated what neume should be written. "Podatus, climacus, bivirga," were heard in the choir loft.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    My apologies, but I am going to have to backpedal and say it will probably be Sept. before I can visit, but it is encouraging to know there is some local interest. From what I hear, our new bishop is at least tradition-friendly if not traditional, and if it comes to it, I may have to form a schola. I've done it before.

    I read the article you mentioned. Please link when you have your rebuttal up. The director, bless him, in his effort to be balanced, ended up rendering chant a dead letter. Plus, I'd add that he makes the classic error that "active participation" means everyone's gotta sing. Faugh.
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Plus, I'd add that he makes the classic error that "active participation" means everyone's gotta sing.


    I knew I wasn't crazy over in that other thread. Hah! Vindication!
  • Patricia Cecilia
    Posts: 397
    That article, starting with the unfortunate title, paints a picture of chant as a historical curiosity. Interesting for those musty old cathedrals and musical experts who have the time to learn a difficult notation - by implication NOT interesting for the new, modern church.


    The thing that struck me was that the Diocesan DM makes the point that the visual and the aural ought to mesh, and goes on about how chant doesn't work in modern churches, mentioning a specific modern building:
    “It’s very bright on the inside and it doesn’t really look very Catholic, so to do chant in a building like that is sort of taking art forms that don’t work together and trying to force them to work together."


    I don't think he realized the implications of what he wrote. I laughed out loud, and after reading the relevant part to my husband, he said, "Given that chant is supposed to have pride of place in the Mass, then that's just an argument for getting rid of all those ugly modern churches, right?"
    Thanked by 5DougS CHGiffen Steve Q E_A_Fulhorst ryand
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Good catch Patricia!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    "“There’s very little Gregorian chant that has been transcribed from Latin to English. Most of it is still in Latin, the text anyway."

    That's absolutely right, and those Latin square notes present an impenetrable wall to people used to singing English square notes.

    That's my next book, A Beginner's Guide to Singing the Gregorian Chant English Square Notes.

    I can see the workshop titles:

    "Think you know how to sing Gregorian Chant? Bet you can only sing those Latin Square notes and have to refer to Cliff's Notes to get you through the offertory when you are faced with English Square notes. This workshop will concentrate on the massive difficulties when singing English Square notes with a Latin text. There will be an exam, but just imagine the big smile when you present your graduation certificate to your bishop, who will thrilled to have yet another person wanting to sing Gregorian chant in the diocese."


    I did enjoy reading the list of music for the Cathedral. The organist is either: 1. Lutheran 2. German or, and this is a good bet: 3. German Lutheran.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Well, I'm wrong...but what's new about that.

    Let's let him speak for himself. I want to hear how he presents chant in its pride of place.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfC0p8mnGA0
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 119
    Just to clarify, Frogman, although Mr. Lukas is the Diocesan DM, he is not the DM at the Cathedral and that wasn't his music list. He plays organ at All Saints, the church he says in the article "doesn't really look very Catholic".

    So you may still be right in your previous comment re: the Cathedral music!
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