There are several dimensions to consider here, but I think the most important pre-planning consideration when choosing a graduate program is the difference between the academic study of music (M.A./Ph.D. degree) versus the applied study of music (M.M./D.M.A. degree). For a glance at the difference, consider that Yale University has a School of Music (applied) and a Department Music (academic), each of which offers an entirely different set of degrees. And obviously the two areas have some overlap.

The graduate institutions that offer one type of program may or may not offer the other. Many large public institutions that focus on applied study (this is the vast majority), for example, nevertheless offer at least a master's-level program in history, theory, or some other academic area. Some institutions that offer the M.A. and Ph.D. do not have any applied graduate degrees.

When advising a student about options, then, it's very important to know what type of program and career he or she is interested in pursuing.

I would suggest, too, that the school that pays you to go, rather than the one that you have to pay to attend, is likely the best choice, especially in today's economy!

What is a "traditional interest"? Is it not possible to be any more specific? I have recommendations, but without more information, it will be difficult to make them good ones.

More information would help elicit better responses.

Sorry, I didn't realize this was an immediate need. I would recommend a hard look at CUA because they offer strong programs in several different areas (academic, applied, etc.).

The Master of Sacred Music program at Notre Dame has certainly benefited greatly from the recent addition of two leading experts in older liturgical music.

The MSM program at Boston University is also excellent (disclaimer: the director is a personal friend of mine) but does not necessarily have a Catholic focus. Ditto the Yale University Institute of Sacred Music.

Beyond those well-known programs any other recommendation is just a roll of the dice on whether or not it would be a good fit for a particular student. Large flagship state universities typically offer the most variety, but it can be hit or miss on whether or not they have a specific church music track.

There was a session about graduate programs at the colloquium last year; were the talks by representatives of universities recorded?

The Notre Dame MSM program is getting better and better, from what I hear. There are enough orthodox (or at least respectful) faculty members to enable you to complete your liturgy work with good people. If anyone is curious, send me a message and I'll tell you who to avoid at all costs. They have solid organ teaching and a great organ facility. They also took the much needed step of adding a choral conducting professor to the faculty. Plus it's free if you get in!
As an alum I was more critical of the program, due to the flakiness of some key faculty members in the liturgy department (my program director threatened not to graduate me because I dared to call his beloved 1973 ICEL translation a 'paraphrase' in a paper) - as well as the lack of choral training. However since I left they hired Peter Jeffrey, Margot Fassler, and a conducting professor. I think it's hard to beat for a masters anymore.

For the specific student in question, though, I'm not sure what to say. She plays violin, but wants a 'general' performance degree? Notre Dame is a good MSM program, but it sounds like what she wants is music education or something. I also don't know of places where you can dabble in composition in a general way - usually the modern American university is not a very wholesome place to study composition. With her skill set, she would need to pick a degree in violin, or music ed, or composition, and then go from there. If she wants to do sacred music, she will have to try a choral/vocal track such as Notre Dame because she is not an organist. Then work through Fux's Gradus like so many composers in training, and skip the post-modern vague composition training we have today.

Notre Dame has also added Paul M. Walker to its M.S.M. faculty. He was previously at the University of Virginia where he was in charge of the early music program. I've known Paul since 1992 when I joined his early music choral ensemble, Zephyrus, which he founded and directed for 20 years before moving with his wife to Notre Dame last year (she became the university librarian at Notre Dame). Paul is an early music specialist, organist, counter-tenor, harpsichordist, conductor and author of the award winning book Theories of Fugue from the Age of Josquin to the Age of Bach. His expertise and understanding of early music, both choral and instrumental, goes far beyond his appointment as an associate professor of organ.

This has sort of already been mentioned, but DON'T go into debt unless you have an actual plan for how you're going to get out of it.
I know organists who went to out-of-state public schools, with minimal financial aid, and now find themselves with 6-figures of debt...and don't seem to think that's a big deal.

irishtenor, I would add to your list for violin (including baroque violin) studies:

Peabody Institute

The Conservatory faculty at the Peabody is absolutely top-notch, with the likes of violinist Victor Danchenko (also on the Curtis Institute faculty), baroque violinist Risa Browder (whom I have known for years), violin pedagogist Rebecca Henry, violinist Elmar Oliveira, as well as viola da gamba player, baroque cellist, and musicologist John Moran (husband of Risa Browder), to mention a few.

I also think the student needs to take a good, long, hard look at "how good AM I compared to everyone else?" Meaning; what do you want to do with this degree? University teaching, high school orchestra directing, private teaching, full-time symphony orchestra performing are for the most part all going to require very different degrees, and as a field have VERY different degrees of competition.
Eg, don't get a degree in violin performance hoping for a job with an orchestra unless you know you are one of the top %0.0001 of violinists in the country, or you are being realistic about what other opportunities that might open. (private teaching, etc.)
Unfortunately, by the time most kids nowadays have got to high school, they've had "you can be anything you want to be!" so engrained in them, and it's most definitely not true, and 4+ years of college later and tons of job rejection letters isn't the time to find out.
Be realistic in assessing your skill level and what you can do with it.

Also, while I see that Notre Dame is getting better, shouldn't there be some concern about a student ending up with a malevolent theology faculty?

Kenneth

Notre Dame and Collegeville

Everyone, thank you very much for the suggestions. I can now make a suitable response to my correspondent, as well as other students who come to me for advice. Would that I were better equipped to give it!
Peter

Nobody on this thread, thus far, has mentioned the Eastman School of Music. Yet when I had the privilege of visiting that school briefly last February, and talking with various students and professors (both groups specializing in organ studies), I was profoundly impressed.

Of course not being a string player myself I have no experience of Eastman's violin-teaching. Nevertheless, if it's anything like what I saw of Eastman's organ-teaching, it would be wonderful. So do not overlook Eastman by any means.

Incidentally I treasure the wisdom of Marajoy's remark: "Unfortunately, by the time most kids nowadays have got to high school, they've had 'you can be anything you want to be!' so engrained in them, and it's most definitely not true, and 4+ years of college later and tons of job rejection letters isn't the time to find out." Alas, that's all too accurate.

I know this isn't the place for advertisements at all, but let me just say that I'd be thrilled if anyone might consider the Univ. of Northern Colorado (where I teach music ed.), in Greeley.

We don't quite have the luster of some of those very fine institutions mentioned above — but our faculty is comprised of many extraordinary graduates of those programs and others (including two of Dr. Mahrt's own students from long ago), and our own graduates do quite well in the field. And our tuition is quite competitive.

We don't have a sacred music program… but if you're looking to sing in a schola, I can hook you up. ;)

Everything said about Notre Dame in this thread is dead-on. I graduated from the MSM program in 2011. It's not a GREAT program quite yet, but it is unique in its focus and is growing up to be a real powerhouse. The additions of Fassler, Jeffrey and Tellez will do wonders a few years down the road.

And yes, it's full-tuition-paid! Message me for more details if you're considering the program.

Many thanks for these details, Mark M. A shame that the recital hall organ isn't regularly played any more and that the instrument isn't formally taught on the faculty any more.

It's a similar situation here at my own college: Australia's Monash University, where I have the largely meaningless but impressive-sounding title of "Adjunct Research Associate". There are two organs on campus, but they mostly gather dust and the Monash music school has no organ students in it at present. I'll look up the Colorado State website and see what by way of organ-related stuff I can find there.

Thank you, ryand. Liberalism and secularism, however extreme, are unlikely to faze any Australian graduate, let alone anyone connected (however vaguely) with the college which was nationally known during the Vietnam War as "the Monash Soviet." (It has been wittily and accurately said that Australia doesn't have 41 universities, but rather, one university with 41 campuses.) Fortunately from my point of view, it would simply never occur to most of my colleagues that I might be any sort of religious believer, let alone that I am a Catholic. I simply mind my own business. But I must say, the Arizona link does look tempting.

R J Stove,
That's good to hear. I took the same attitude myself and survived. If your faith is threatened, there is always that fantastic Newman center nearby ;)


Charles,
All of the organs have a good purpose and get a good amount of use.

I'm guessing by "North German clones," you are referring to the Fritts? (the large red one, the main organ in the hall). The Fritts is actually very versatile for being a "classical" organ. I played about five centuries of material on it ... Couperin, Bach, Vierne, Pärt, etc. I liked it for all of them. It requires a little bit of creativity on registrations for some material, but it is surprisingly flexible. My only complaint is the lack of a swell box, but then again I tend to "ride" the pedal too much anyway, so maybe that was a good thing!

The others have more "particular" purposes, but they do get used. The Italian organ (Traeri) is in meantone, so doesn't fit a lot of material, but for certain things its great ... and a unique experience to play on an authentic instrument. I used it for some Frescobaldi material, and it was cool to think of him writing that music on a similar instrument ... stops, action, etc. The vox humana is a beautiful effect! Then there is the little portative, which is usually used for early music ensembles. I did wind up using it a few times for some 20th century compositions though. And there are 3 practice room organs ... nothing fantastic, but they're all actual pipe organs, and serve their purpose (practice).

RE: material studied, it is quite varied. The professor is very open minded and actually tries to stress a versatile repertoire. I studied with a doctoral student, whose recitals ranged from Frescobaldi to Messiaen ... so I'd say there's a good variety!

"The days when halls were packed for organ recitals have passed. Is it the instruments, the literature, the promotion of music that doesn't connect with audiences, playing styles, or something else entirely?"

I'll quote you to answer the quote.

"Who knows?"


ASU at least doesn't have problems with:
-instruments
-literature
-playing styles

Does the music connect with audiences? I don't know. Then again, my elementary students were more aware of Rebecca Black than Johannes Brahms ... what to do?

Is it something else entirely? "Who knows?"

I think one reason that this question doesn't have an easy answer is b/c it takes so much time for a program to get "built up" and especially recognized, so often it happens that over the years as a program is gaining a reputation, by the time a certain student gets there with high expectations, faculty X has gotten old or retired or moved on...and the program isn't what it used to be, but no one knows that yet. And a really great but relatively "new" program won't have the graduates to be able to prove that it's great yet.

It's difficult for me to understand where CharlesW is coming from. I'm old enough now to understand that available instruments have as much to do with programing as personal pantheons, but when I was young I shied away from organ recitals because they seemed to be frequented not by most musicians I knew but instead by some weird cult where Reger, Sowerby or Widor were more likely to be given the place of honor than JSB. Ironically my latest disappointment came when John Butt, announcing that there were anglophobes spotted in the audience, replaced the advertised Elgar Sonata with Clavierübung III. Fun of course, but I had specifically made the trip to hear an undiscovered piece...

To put the thread back on track, I can't say nearly enough about ASU's Kimberly Marshall as an outstanding performer and enthusiastic teacher.

Richard Mix,

Did you study at ASU (and when)?

Yes, I noticed that Kimberly Marshall was at ASU. I've read some of her writing and heard some of her recordings, but I have no experience of hearing her in concert.

The two dust-gathering Monash organs were (like Monash itself, for that matter) products of 1960s-1970s affluence, where the sole principle for antipodean schooling consisted of the magic words "Give us more money." Back then the Orgelbewegung was just beginning to make its presence felt here, and on the "if you build it, they will come" theory, Monash acquired two Orgelbewegung-derived instruments. So far I've seen (and played on) only one of them, which is totally unsuitable for anything composed after 1750.