However, gregp, if the choir is up on the loft, then the point is moot. Now, I can certainly understand the cantor facing the people because the cantor is leading the faithful in the singing, especially during the psalm and the Gospel Acclamation. At that point, the faithful do need direction. However, when it comes to the Mass, the priest is leading us in prayer. If you read the accounts of Moses, he is leading the people in prayer. Everyone, Moses included, is turning towards the Lord. Both Pope Benedict XVI and Fr. Uwe Michael Lang make excellent arguments in favor of ad orientem for the celebrant.
Actually, the cantor does not need to be visible at all. I double as cantor and organist many times, and I am (purposely) hid behind the console. "Directing" is HIGHLY over-rated and unnecessary and a distraction to focusing on God.
It may be chanted...this does not rule out the tradition of singing it from the loft or from the steps.
I figure that this was added to stop complaints from cantors who wanted to be at the ambo LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
The way that the antiphon is sung and accompanied should indicate when the people are to join in, not a visual clue. It makes no sense to "conduct" the people here and not conduct them for the entire Mass. It's silly. It's more of the power play - I'm just as important as the readers! Conducting this and nothing else also gives people the impression that maybe they are not supposed to sing at other times....they can't tell the difference between the introduction for Ave Verum of Mozart or a hymn at the offertory and communion - since we are not willing to place something in their hands that tells them exactly what they are to sing (forget number boards) they are NOT going to sing.
The abolishing of the epistle side lectern, reservation of the pulpit for the Gospel, the removal of the tabernacle to another place, all serve to make the Mass more like a low church Protestant service which violently works to avoid signs of tradition, especially tradition that is Roman.
In the Protestant service the prayers are led by a preacher and the more charismatic his personality, the larger the church grows. In the Catholic tradition, the church downplays the charisma of the celebrant, with him facing as we are, the crucifix.
These dumbing down of the liturgy decisions may have been done to attempt to become even more ecumenical. I don't see anything that we have done in an ecumenical manned that would attract anyone until Benedict invited the Anglicans to join and preserve their heritage.
Preserve their heritage. Is ours next to be preserved and put back into place?
Well, it's an interesting question. Leaving aside ad orientam completely, I suppose even ad populum I would find true eye contact (i.e. my eyes meeting the priest's) disconcerting during any sort of collect, prayer, or canon. However, for dialogues and invitations, it seems perfectly natural. Of course, I recognize that at many of these points, when celebratng ad orientam, the rubrics instruct the priest to turn and face the people.
Here's a routine reminder: Be discriminating but don't nitpick.
What I find odd about this issue is the seeming cross purposes...
The closed-circle, low-mass, versus populum crowd generally advocates a low-clericalism: The priest is just another person, one of us. These are the people who rail against cassocks and birettas and ring-kissing. However, facing towards the people is a much more obvious symbol of the priest as leader and, more specifically, of priest in persona Christi.
The ad orientem mode, on the other hand, seems to emphasize priest-as-human and priest-as-part-of-the-congregation. Which is sort of funny, because the strongest champions of this posture seem to have a fairly high-clericalism, and are much more apt to talk about the priest as an image of Christ, the priest as shepherd, the priest as ontologically different.
In many respects, both ways of looking at the priesthood are accurate and incomplete without each other. So, perhaps, as with many of the workings of the Holy Spirit within today's Church, the best thing is that both modes exist within the same Roman Rite, and the theological effects of each are able to mutually enrich each other.
A third view of the priest's role is of course represented by the Orthodox and Eastern churches, where the sacrifice is performed in a wholly separate space. This seems to indicate the purist idea: neither priest as congregant nor priest as leader, but simply priest as priest.
Eye contact is, among other things, an encounter between two individuals.
Kathy, here's a personal observation about the contrast between cantoring the responsorial psalm from the ambo vs. the gradual from the loft. Its what comes to mind about eye contact.
When I cantor the rp from the ambo I switch to performer/communicator mode and try to make eye contact with people. Just seems more natural than looking over their heads and not breaking that third wall, but I suppose that would be an option.
Still, things become more about me as cantor than they should. "Who haven't I made eye contact with, which side of the nave should I look at now, are the people singing the response", etc., are things that run through my mind. I am in charge of facilitating outward participation more than I am responsible for delivering the prayers in such a way that fosters devotion. At least that's how it feels to me, because of eye contact.
Perhaps that is why I am so very tired of cantoring from a position facing people...
When I sing the gradual verse from the loft, or somewhere not facing
the people, I have a very different starting point. I am focused on the text and decorating it with skill and a prayerful fervor that will stir the hearts and minds of the listener/ prayers.
MaryAnn... ....and that's why we're chanting from within the congregation at the cemetery at our noon Mass today, save for the psalm. Using Adam's wonderful new settings with AOZ's psalm setting. I chaired a new ad hoc committee on lector formation/training last night, and the notion of de-personalizing of the performance aspect of ministry is really gaining traction. And by that I would hope the meaning of that is summed up by the axiom, "I (ego) must decrease, so that He may increase." In practical terms, such as re-mediating diva lectors, cantors or celebrants, it's not so easy a proposition to sell. But when you encounter rites that eminate that "in persona Christi" presence, it's so sublime and obvious to all. Ironically, like a supreme court justice once quipped, "I may not know how to define 'pornography,' but I know 'it' when I see 'it.'" I may not know how to define solemnity in theory, but I know it when I'm in the midst of it.
As for the choir director example, Solesmes chironomy makes a lot more sense when the leader is facing the same way as the schola. Otherwise all of the shapes appear to the singers as the reverse of how they are written.
Charles, yes to all you say.
Once I started to experience solemnity, the disadvantages of facing the people. Bottom line for the sacred musician- what St. John the Baptist said.
And ad orientem, including the element of eye contact relief, makes that more possible.
Incantu, good point. At the Solesmes course this summer,
Dom Saulnier stressed that, especially if one were conducting and singing, it often works better to lead from within the group.
Papalgal wrote: "Both Pope Benedict XVI and Fr. Uwe Michael Lang make excellent arguments in favor of ad orientem for the celebrant."
I left the Catholic Church for the Russian Orthodox Church in the late 60s, largely over distaste for the new rite. I'm just an ordinary layman, but the 'versus populum' stance was/is, in my opinion, the most objectionable feature of the Vatican II reforms. My question: if Pope Benedict has argued in favor of the ancient 'ad orientem' stance for prayer (which, as papalgal pointed out, is a tradition that precedes even the temple ritual, and which was universal in Christendom until Vatican II), why have I only ever seen him on TV celebrating 'versus populum'? Why doesn't he lead by example? In fact, I have only ever seen discussion of 'ad orientem' celebration of the new rite on the internet. Does it ever happen in normal circumstances? Are there dioceses in North America where 'ad orientem' celebrations of the Mass are permitted as the norm and parishes where this is the customary practice?
He does celebrate ad orientem at St. Peter's Basilica. St. Peter's actually faces liturgical east. He also does this at the Sistene Chapel. Furthermore, when he celebrates Mass, he does use a rather large altar cross in front of him to place the focus back on Jesus and not on the celebrant.
Mass facing the people was not an official part of the Council' reform. The Latin Missal (still the one of 2002) speaks of the priest turning around to say Dominus vobiscum, meaning that it presumes the normal posture is facing the altar.
Pope Benedict faces the people at St. Peter's because the church faces West, so that he faces East when he faces the people.
Charles is right: the crucifix makes an enormous difference. At the Colloquium, most of the Masses are ad orientem; one was not, celebrated by Fr. Keyes, at which he had a crucifix on the altar, and he looked at it most of the time, not seeking eye contact with the people. One of those in attendance spoke about that Mass, saying that it was astonishingly different from the local parish-Mass experience, because it kept a sense of transcendence. This can be observed, when the Pope's Mass is televised from St. Peter's, where he focuses upon the crucifix, and even in that enormous church, it makes a great difference.
OK. So Pope Benedict is *technically* facing East when he celebrates at St. Peter's, but the practical effect is the same - large crucifix or not - the Mass is psychologically "WE" centered. Also, whenever I have caught a newscast on EWTN or wherever of the Pope celebrating Mass, it is always the familiar arrangement, with him celebrating facing the people.
But no one has answered my basic question: Is celebration of the Mass with the priest *and the people* all facing East still essentially taboo in most dioceses, and virtually unknown at the parish level, or is it becoming more common? I would consider an event such as the Colloquium to be a relatively esoteric event, as far as the general laity is concerned. Basically, my impression is that there are probably more Catholics under 40 who have attended a Russian Orthodox Divine Liturgy, than have ever assisted at a Novus Ordo Mass celebrated with the priest facing East. If 'ad orientem' is the norm, as mahrt says, then why is it never seen at festive televised celebrations, not to mention in any ordinary parish that I have ever heard of? And if such celebrations ARE becoming commonly available to the general church-going public, can you point me in the right direction?
Shouldn't be commenting, because i don't even have time to read the whole thread, but the subject reminds me of a pet peeve (I'm a peevish person, i have a whole menagerie rather than a single pet...) the extraordinary ministers who have been trained to try desperately to make eye contact with communicants.
Oh, and while I'm at it, the priest who thinks the EP is addressed to US, rather than to the Father, (one I know even changes all the pronouns to make this so,) and therefore tries to make eye contact with the entire congregation as he says, "take this..."
Insistence on eye contact thwarts recollection.
Singing Mum, did the Bishop in question use the words, "does violence"?
p.s. I have found as a PIP that it is good for my immortal soul to have a crucifix upon which to fix my gaze, rather than the face of a priest who may be falling down on his arse celebrandi. That way I find it easier to love him, regardless of his creativity in embellishing the texts... If the parish decorating mavens have not provided a crucifix, there's always a rosary in a pocket or purse, right?
G, no he didn't use that phrase.
Arse celebrandi- HA!!
I agree that the altar crucifix is a good solution to the problem. This focus reorients the celebrant and the faithful. BXVI is truly concerned about the formation of our souls in connection with the sacred liturgy (not that other popes haven't been). I am joyful and grateful for this.
Eye-contact demands focus on the other. When any forensic-speaking team is coached, they're told to gain eye-contact with the judge and several of the others in the room. That forces the judge (and the others) to pay attention to the speaker and nothing else.
NOTHING else is the key here. The offertory and canon prayers of the priest are directed to God. If the priest gains eye-contact with the faithful during these prayers, the focus of the faithful moves to the priest.
Obviously, the greet/response prayers are different.
From the rear doors of St P to the main altar is EIGHT HUNDRED YARDS. On television you see "close-up" which is simply not representative of the reality of that Basilica.
Yes, he does "face the people." But if you're mid-way back in the pews, you wouldn't have a clue who is celebrating the Mass from looking at him, unless you have a program.
In brief: there ain't no "eye contact" problem there.
Also, as a friend of mine put it, he's so high at the altar (15 or 20 steps, I think?) that he's not really "facing the people", but moreso "facing the upper rear wall." :)
Is the novus ordo Mass actually being celebrated with any frequency anywhere, where the priest and the people all face east (or 'liturgical East', as least), as was the received practice of Catholic Christianity until Vatican II?
All our homeschool group's Masses are ad orientem starting last year, and the response has been exceptional. Our Masses are also sung Masses with either GR or SEP propers, and latin ordinaries. It's really quite amazing.
If anyone's priest is doing this or considering it, please: support him!!
The answer is yes. In the Diocese of Phoenix, there is a church that offers both forms every Sunday, and EF daily masses 3 times a week. Both forms are celebrated ad orientem. Only one priest does EF, but he does OF as well. Both priests celebrate ad orientem exclusively.
They do the incensing of the altar, the gospel, toward the people during the offertory.
There is a communion rail. Only the priest distributes, not even the deacon. One species is offered.
I have even seen mass celebrated (ordinary form) when the pastor was incognito back in the sacristy, and came out to help during communion. The deacon (and 4 altar servers) were serving on the altar, but no unordained hands ever touch the host. If they anticipate a large congregation, the pastor sits patiently behind the scenes rather than delegate distribution to his deacon or laity.
This is ordinary form, and it is ad orientem.
They never do it any other way.
edit: Also of note is that EF is offered at 5pm on Sundays. How's that for counter-cultural?!
Our one EF mass each week has the priest facing "east." It really isn't east. To face the altar, the priest has to face west, since that is the orientation of the building. It is interesting that the priest faces actual east only at the OF masses.
Msgr. Gamber, among others, notes how the current building doesn't follow the footprint of the original building. The altar area looks nothing like it did when built. The altar is in the same place, but the enlarged building puts it in a different context to the walls of the building. The book, "The Bones of St. Peter," gives information on the foundations of the original Constantinian building and the construction of the earlier altars.
My church is designed so that liturgical east and geographical east coincide, and all our Masses at both the High Altar and Our Lady's Chapel are celebrated with all worshippers, cleric and laity, facing east. In fact, if the archbishop ordered the priests to celebrate facing the people, he would first need to order that the High Altar be removed from the wall. Even thenn, the tabernacle is right in front of the altar, such that-you guessed it-the priest would have to, for the whole of the Mass, have his back turned against our Lord in order to celebrate towards the people. The priest offers the Mass on behalf of the people. Perhaps he should also worship in the same direction when there is no crucifix on the altar? Is that really a novel idea?
James,
The chaplain for our homeschool group began offering our monthly Mass ad orientem a few years ago. He now also offers the weekday parish Masses ad o., I believe, but I don't know if he has plans to do so on Sundays. I am not aware of anywhere else in our diocese that ad o. is used for an OF Mass.
Here's a routine reminder: Be academic not acerbic.
Also, had EWTN's televised Mass not been prohibited from being offered ad o. by the local ordinary back in '99, I think the revived practice might be more widespread by now.
Bp. Foley of Birmingham (since retired) gave EWTN a set of directives in 2000, and got a summary of them published in the Osservatore Romano, of all places. (That couldn't have possibly been connected with church politics, could it?) Local ordinaries have the the authority to regulate televised Masses, so he was within his rights to do so, and EWTN followed his instructions.
Here's a routine reminder: Avoid flames: critique principles, not people. Be discriminating but don't nitpick. Be academic not acerbic. Be principled not polemical.
Ah, I just figured out that OF = Ordinary Form and EF = the old Tridentine Form. Thanks, everybody for all your responses to my query about ad orientem celebrations of the Novus Ordo. The impression I get is that ad orientem celebrations of the Novus Ordo rite are probably even less common than celebrations in the old rite, and that if I ever wanted to attend either one, it would be easier to find the latter than the former within driving distance of southern New Hampshire. But perhaps that will change someday.
I just came across this 13-minute video about a New Year's exhibit at the Manège Exhibit Hall near Red Square in Moscow. The exhibit, called "Vozrozhdenije" ('Renaissance' in Russian), celebrates the renewal of the Russian Orthodox Church since the fall of Communism in 1991. The video shows the exhibit being set up and people venerating the miraculous Tikhvin Icon of the Mother of God. Thought I'd share:
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