I really did abridge what Thomas Day wrote, perhaps unfairly. He admits that the chants have quoted scripture, and would quote God; however, he talks about the fact that there was a sort of a distinction, because it was in latin, and gregorian chant, so it was completely different than if you said it yourself. Also I think, there's a different thing going on psychologically, when you hear a Schola singing something, and when you're in the congregation singing it yourself with the entire church.

I am strictly against "Voice of God" as a disqualifier for music. If your congregation can't figure out who is raising up whom, you have a LOT bigger problems than the music your congregation uses. I found that line of reasoning persuasive when I was about 8. As much as it pains me to agree with him, I think Jeff O has a point as well that we should be wary of putting words into God's mouth. God (Jesus) REALLY DID say to us "I am the Bread of Life" and did promise to "Raise him up". That's something we all need to keep in mind, and a hymn text is a good way to remember it. (I will point out that I don't use that hymn because of the obscene range, and when I do use it I raise the pitch to A Major just out of spite)

I find the verses of "Here I am Lord" rather good, but the melody, as one commentator put it, sounds less like the voice of a sovereign Lord and more like a hobo rapping on your window for some change. I could go on about other "voice of God" hymns which I don't use, but it will suffice to say that most of these songs disqualify themselves through something other than the active voice of the text.

I think I understand what you mean. I have always disliked hymns that seem too people centered rather than God centered. Some modern hymns are more like social engineering anthems. They seem along the lines of:

"There will be pie in the sky,
Pie in the sky for me.
I'll worship the holy trinity,
I, myself, and me."

Sometimes I am not clear on what or who the hymns are worshipping. However, I don't have any problem with quotes from scripture.

This tangential question just occurred to me: Are there any "Voice of God" hymns to be found in the corpus of Latin hymnody? I don't remember ever finding "Ego," in any Latin hymn, with or without the "dicit Dominus."

Proper antiphons are another story entirely, of course...

Aristotle hits on something I have considered, too: yes, the chant propers use the “Vox Dei”, BUT until the 20th century, the thought of a congregation singing the propers was pretty far askance of mainstream liturgical thought. The Roman Mass proper is repertoire that was composed by, and exclusively for, dedicated ministers of music, not entire congregations.

In other words, it’s a very different thing to hear a choir or cantor sing “Ego sum panis vivus” than to sing it oneself.

What is at the core of the controversy, and what must not be forgotten, is the primary purpose of the liturgy, that is, the establishment and maintaining of a "love relationship" with God (Creator) and human kind (Creation). Every element of the liturgy is a way of affirming that relationship, and the dialogue that attends it.

If we are speaking of Vox Dei texts within the context of the EF, there is no difficulty. As Felipe Gasper rightly points out, there is a distinction not to be missed or overlooked when speaking of a choir or cantor singing within the context of an EF Mass.

What is at issue here is the use of Vox Dei texts sung in English by the whole congregation within the context of an OF Mass. When we sing "I am the bread of life . . . and I will raise you up," suddenly the very important dialogue between Creator and Creation is broken, disrupted, distorted. It makes no more sense for us to sing the "Voice of God" in these songs any more than it would make sense for us to sing love songs to our self, about our self, while in the presence of the one from whom the love comes.

Even worse are those texts, albeit scriptural, that place both the "Voice of God" and our response to the Voice all in our own song. "I Have Loved You" is perhaps one of the best examples of this odd construct: "I have loved you with an everlasting love/ I have loved you, and you are mine," which is followed by "Seek the face of the Lord and call on him . . ." The refrain describes God's love for us, but we're singing the "I's" and "you's" in a narcissistic exercise. Then we exhort each other to "seek the face . . ."

Or, try making any sense of "Here I Am, Lord." This would be a powerful song if rendered in the way it seems to be intended . . . a solo voice singing the verses with the congregation responding to the "call." Instead we're doing the calling and the responding. We're in essence talking to ourselves, making ourselves the God who calls us rather than permitting the dialogue to exist.

There are a number of really well-written and well-reasoned articles on other sites, including CNP and Adoremus that discuss the theological and liturgical implications of Vox Dei texts, and even the Holy Father has written extensively on this subject.

The only one I really have a problem with is that one that goes "I myself am the Bread of Life" then again, I'm not sure that qualifies as a Voix Dei song.

@Gavin:

Tu es Petrus is a proper antiphon text, rather than part of a hymn. If it is also part of a hymn, I don't recall encountering or singing it.

Examples of Vox Dei antiphons abound in the Mass:

IN. Resurrexi/I have arisen
ANT. Si ego Dominus et magister/If I, Lord and teacher
ANT. Mandatum novum do vobis/A new commandment I give to you
CO. Amen dico vobis/Amen I say to you
CO. Ego sum vitis vera/I am the true vine
etc.

(I'm giving these examples for the benefit of others, as I know you're well familiar with them.)

One reason why I ask if there is even one example of 'voice of God' hymnody in Latin* is to find out if there is a precedent for using the 'divine first-person' in that format. I welcome verification or correction, but I don't believe one exists.

Which brings me to my useless personal view about the entire matter: If the faithful (choir and/or congregation) are singing a 'voice of God' antiphon in the original Latin, or a good translation whose compositional structure parallels the Latin, then great - as the text is part of the liturgy, the faithful are singing the Mass at that point of the Mass. Everything else that falls outside that well-defined domain is fair game for criticism.**

*Examples from other rites/sacral languages are also welcome.
**Example: David Haas' "We Have Been Told," while quoting "Ego sum vitis vera," uses a translation as a verse and not the antiphon and does not parallel the structure of the antiphon. That said, one may rationalize employing this example as an alius cantus aptus.

Look, the problem isn't "voice of God" texts per se, the problem is the way they've become a part of a larger distorted picture of what we're to be about when "gathered for worship." The problem is that these "voice of God" texts feed into the notion that WE are somehow God. It feeds into the "touchy-feely" concept of Christ (or God) being somehow present most importantly in the "gathered assembly" rather than God present in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, which the Church teaches is the sine qua non of Divine Presence.

If we continuously sing not just about God to each other, but sing to each other as if we are GOD the very dialogic nature of the action of the liturgy is ripped apart, stood on its head. God is reduced to a passive observer, while the people glorify in their own divinity.

Aristotle: I'm curious why you're looking for a hymn exactly. If it's because of the congregational participation, I thought I heard somewhere that the new pope is greeted with "Tu es Petrus!", although I could easily be mistaken.

David: I have never heard of anyone claiming to be God. You've been around a lot more than I, so I suppose if you say you run into it, I'll take your word for it. I have heard a few mentions of Christ's presence which tended to gloss over the Sacrament - "Oh and of course in the Eucharist" - but that strikes me more as bad preaching than too many "Here I am Lord"s. And if you want "touchy-feely", look at the protestant "praise" music. I recall at a protestant college some friends and I were sitting around bashing the contempo-song book, and I said that all of the songs could substitute for erotic literature, which led to some very horrible and hilarious readings of the lyrics.

Again, I don't run into people glorying in their own divinity. You might get the noose prepared for me saying this, but this is why we have "Be Not Afraid" every funeral. People like it because they hear God comforting them. Not because the congregation is going to bring their grandma out of purgatory while singing it. People like it because it reminds them of the promises God made to us and to the deceased. I can't think of a specific example, but it's like when someone important gives you words of wisdom and you repeat them. Ok, it's not terribly effective of an example, but I often repeat to myself before playing some of the advice that my first organ teacher would give me - "No excess movement, steady tempo, precisely 1 beat breathing..." Or maybe now that I live on my own in a large city I might repeat to myself while on the streets "be aware of your surroundings, watch out for suspicious people..." I don't see why I can't do the same thing with God's words to me. Why can't I just think of "Be still and know I am God" (for example); why do I have to think "God said through David, Be still..."?

This is a subject for which I can only express my understanding in my limited little ways for so long before I begin to go in circles.

May I suggest a reading of some of the wonderful articles over at www.canticanova.com? Another very fine article on this subject is entitled, "Ritus Narcissus: Why Do We Sing Ourselves and Celebrate Ourselves?" by Fr. Paul Scalia. (www.adoremus.org/399Scalia.html)

In response to your retort that you don't know anyone who "claims" to be God, neither do I. On the other hand, I do know some folk who don't really understand who God really is, or even what the Church has to say about God and how we properly relate to him within the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. As the singing of these "voice of God" hymns has been going on for a number of years now, colored by the entirely credible explanation that "these are direct quotes from scripture, therefore they're appropriate for us to sing," I can't say I'm surprised that many folk aren't aware of just how spiritually destructive these texts and the frankly lame ditties to which they're sung truly are.

Read that Scalia article over at Adoremus Bulletin. It's an eye-opener!

@david andrew:

This comment is maybe not too intelligent or even civil, but I wonder why contemporary composers don't set "voice of God" texts like Matthew 10:34:

Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.

or Matthew 5:31-32:

And it hath been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce. But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting for the cause of fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

or Matthew 25:41:

Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

(Imagine that last one composed in a major key to the popular lyric ballad format. I've already composed a cute melody for it - punctuated with hand-claps - which could be used at children's Masses.)

St. Matthew's Gospel alone is chock full of juicy quotes like the ones above. They are just as vox Dei as the examples commonly trotted out. Why aren't they set? The mind boggles...

This is another example of why adherence to the texts of the liturgy, whether in Latin or the vernacular, is important. They were put there for a reason.

David Andrew said: I can't say I'm surprised that many folk aren't aware of just how spiritually destructive these texts and the frankly lame ditties to which they're sung truly are.

I must come down on DA's side on this one, and I also concur that this is a difficult subject to address. However, the VoG texts are, IMHO, not only subtly eroding our understanding of our relationship with the Divine, as DA pointed out, but also confuse our comprehension of being "created in His image and likeness." VoG hymns chip away at our faith, ISTM, in much the same way that communion hymns and songs about eating bread and drinking wine destroy our belief in the Real Presence of the Eucharist.

Slow day for me, so I just have to point out: Vom Himmel Hoch is from the person of the angel, not from God.

Thank you, Gavin, for pointing that out. My bad.

One detail which I have noticed that seems characteristic of the 'good' vox Dei hymns is the authors' conscientious use of quotation marks to set off divine utterances. This is true of both How Firm A Foundation and I Heard The Voice Of Jesus Say.