PTB, if you hadn't noticed...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Check it out!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Indeed, I did notice ... and many many thanks for being so straightforward in discussing your pathway of faith.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    My goodness. I appreciate the honesty, but you cannot call yourself orthodox AND support heresies in your heart.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I think I was pretty clear that I am what I call "otherwise orthodox.

    Unlike many liberal Catholics I have known, I am under no delusions about where my own thinking does not align with the Church's, and I continue to pray equally fervently for either the enlightenment of those in power, or of myself, whichever is required.
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    adam
    excellent post and wonderful comment above. micheal oconners statement really focuses the dilemma for me as a fellow "liberal traditionalist" although he certainly didnt mean it this way, i still cant help but get a tad upset at the "im a real catholic your not" attitude inherent in the orthodox mindset.
    doubt is the flipside of faith. i too struggle with much of what the church teaches on social issues and am disturbed by the attitude that this struggle denotes a weakness of faith. quite the contrary, faith is a journey and if you have all the answers theres no need to live.
    my struggle is wondering if there is room in the church for a person like me.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am not liberal, and I accept what the Church teaches. However, some of the "orthodox" - with a little "o" - people I have met really are self-righteous jerks. No, they don't have the answers to everything, and are so consumed with pride, I sometimes wonder if they are even Christian. I suspect dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's will not be as important in the next life as how we treated others.

    Yes, I think there is room in the church for a person like you.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Would it be fair (albeit somewhat a narrow slice of your essay) to state that you are captivated by the beauty of Chant?

    There's a reason I ask.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Let me be clear - I hope I am not one of those that Richards speaks of - I too question certain things about the Church, but I try to stay humble and tell myself that I may not understand some things, but to pull on some threads may unravel my whole acceptance of the Church and her teachings. My apologies for missing the qualifier in your statement, but I still think that you believe in some things that put you in pretty sharp opposition to some defining elements of the Church. That said, I also am not in a position or even inclined to say you are any less Catholic that I. I don't follow your argument for women's ordination at all, but as my neighbor and fellow traveler you have my Christian love and prayers.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I don't follow your argument for women's ordination at all

    I haven't really stated it yet, except a brief summary. Stay tuned to the Otherwise Orthodox blog if you are interested.

    Would it be fair (albeit somewhat a narrow slice of your essay) to state that you are captivated by the beauty of Chant?

    In addition to other things about it, absolutely yes.
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    micheal, i hope you didnt think for a moment that i included you in my negative assesment of a small part of a beautiful orthadox spirituality. i know you to be the open minded good natured soul that you are.
    jeffries
    good question .the particulars arent important( and are between me my confessor and God anyway.) basically im a sinner who has no hope but for the mercy of God...just like every one else.
    dad 29 excellent observation and question. im with adam on that one.
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    oh, and charles
    your comments above ment a great deal to me.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Thank you. I saw the You Tube video of you performing the Fugue in C from the Organ Sonata in C minor of Mendelssohn. You are a very talented man.
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    Adam, (and all the others reading this),

    I am new here and have seen your name pop up in a variety of topics here. I am happy that a gifted musician such as you is here. Your spiritual life is, indeed, a journey with the Lord, and if you are open to His will, He will share it with you. I don't claim to be any holier than anyone else.

    However, putting labels on yourself, and finding interest in the "wow" factor of having an unusual combination of beliefs seems to be, and I mean this kindly, a little prideful.

    I'm glad you accept some orthodox teachings - but why do you accept them? Is the Trinity - 1 God in 3 Divine Persons, a belief admissible to anyone's natural understanding? No. You believe it, (with whatever names you give them as you wrote above), because an authority greater than you or me, held it and codified it. This Church is the same Church that teaches out against some of the things you are for. Mind you, this Church does not consider these issues matters of discipline, but rather of doctrine, and has very good reasons for doing so.

    With what can you hold onto the Trinity if you reject the same authority that provides the basis for it - on other matters?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    JIF

    Thank you for your thoughts. Believe me, I take them in good faith.
    I really want to respond to some of what you're saying here- as I think it's a very relevant issue, but it'll be a day or two before I have time to do so.

    In the mean time- thank you again for your candor and love.
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