envy as a cause of disruption in choir
  • My unpaid choir members all seem to want soloes. An alto, untrained with modicum of voice in anger tells me she feels "neglected" . The baritone who graduated from a conservatory
    is resented. A bass complains that he also is a baritone, and HE should have been given that solo. Hurt feelings erupt.
    Nobody seems to share my lifelong view (unspoken) that it doesn't make sense to be jealous of someone unless you are willing to take on all the known and unknowns about that person--in effect want to BE that person. If you have a small voice or one unsuited to the music at hand, why not take pleasure in your own contribution? But that's a rant. How about some practical suggestions for maintaining harmony?
  • Don't choose repertoire that requires a solo.
  • To clarify: it's an all-volunteer choir
  • Hmmm. I would be interested in an answer here too, not that we have this problem. But I'm curious what someone with experience would say about this.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Why not let the others sing a (obviously different) solo?
  • I agree with capa20. However, if a composition is selected that has a solo in it, have all the altos, or tenors or basses or sopranos sing the solo respectively; not an individual. Everything depends on the collective level of maturity of the ensemble and each member.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Would it be possible to sing something with psalm verses -- say, a communion antiphon -- and assign those to people for a little solo experience?

    Then you could give everyone a recording of the piece, or the whole Mass. I've found that to be an effective reality check about the state of my singing.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    The best solution that I've seen is for the director to do auditions, based on objective and fair criteria. This lets people know what they need to strive for if they want to solo, or cantor, or whatever. And if they get good enough to pass the audition, then let 'em give it a try.

    It's not easy to describe the standards and enforce them, but it's worth it.
  • @ connbrio

    What "solo" would this be for? Is this to cantor the Responsorial Psalm? Or is this an actual solo for another particular part of the Mass, such as Offertory or Communion?
  • There are solos and then there are solos. For the liturgical bits, I'd say distribute them among all who want them. They're short and simple, and if they aren't the most beautiful, it's not the end of the world. And if your would-be soloist crashes and burns on something that simple, arguably they shouldn't be in the choir. If you're talking "feature number" here, maybe you shouldn't do those. Yes, if you have a nice voice to do them, they're a temptation, because they probably take less rehearsal. But it can be argued that they aren't part of the "core tradition", and if they create dissension, it's not worth it. That said, I'd hate to lose 19th-c French solo motets, or the Baroque things.
  • They have joined a choir and you would assume they joined to sing in an ensemble, not to be a soloist. However, I like the suggestion of a work that has small solos in it, not too challenging but something that gives the "want to be" soloist an opportunity.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I had a situation where someone wanted to sing a solo at the pre-midnight mass concert one Christmas. He really didn't have the voice for it, but I saw no need to hurt his feelings over it. The size of the congregation increases during the concert with most arriving in the last 15 minutes before midnight mass begins. I let him sing at the beginning of the concert while the congregation was still small. Everyone was happy.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I had a person who thought he was the next angelic voice to sing the song of the universe. I told him that I would work with him until I felt he was confident enough (and on pitch enough) to be part of the liturgy. I did three one hour rehearsals with him, and he still couldn't even hit the pitches. He dismissed himself from the music program. I was willing to go on until we got results and a possible opportunity to sing at the liturgy.

    I have standards for the liturgy, and everyone knows it. I never turn anyone away from an aspiration, but they have to meet the minimum requirement, so its up to them! You should never have to say no in words or actions. Truth is always self evident.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    "Learning to sing, in choral singing, is not only an exercise of physical hearing and of the voice; it is also an education in inner hearing, the hearing of the heart, an exercise and an education in living and in peace... Singing in a choir is an education in life, an education in peace, it is 'walking together'..."

    Pope Benedict XVI
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    You would think that a no-solo policy would quiet things. But I gathered from commentary by informed choir members (several years afterward) that the reason so many older choir members left, soon after our new director arrived, was that we pretty much stopped doing motets with solos (by request of the pastor) and they wanted solos. They didn't want to be cantors, but they did want to have solos. (I guess. Nobody said anything to me. It was just muttermuttermutter gone.)

    To be fair, there's a big difference between having one motet a week at most, from having a Communion motet, a prelude motet, and often an Offertory motet, nearly every week. That may have been the real issue, especially since a few of them ended up going to another parish with a big music program. Others may have just decided that it was time to retire from choirs and pursue other interests, or their health problems may have caught up with them. But it was kinda weird that people would just dust off years with a choir and parish from their feet, without at least making their farewells to us at practice. They just disappeared, sometimes sending messages through other choir members. The whole thing was very worrying and creepy. (And kinda passive-aggressive.)

    (You know what would be awesome? A choir horror movie. At first the new director thinks people just don't want to work with him -- but then they start turning up with their toes turned up....)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Hmmm! The choir from the black lagoon. ;-)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    ... and they eat reams of motets in a single bite.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Every time we have a change in choir directors, we ALWAYS have people who decide to leave - take a break from singing, or move to a different choir/parish, whatever. I see it as natural, and not a reason to think that you're doing the wrong thing.

    Now if people CONTINUE to leave, then something's not healthy.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    What Carl said. Sometimes they don't want to leave because they're loyal, and when a change happens, they take advantage of it to depart without causing bad feelings.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    ooooh...can I be in that movie?!
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    no but seriously...
    yeah, I do agree that people will almost always leave--especially if you're changing ANYTHING. but...assuming that you are actually going to *improve* the music program? Then most likely you will get at least some replacements. (If not, I would argue that you're doing something wrong, but we'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis to prove that!)
  • My experience too. Many choristers leave because they've been wanting to, but did not want to have to face their choir director over it. In every case, two things happened. Some came back after a breather and new people showed up. My biggest concern was and is that Catholic parishes have a much more difficult time recruiting than Protestant congregations. A Baptist congregation of 3000 can generate an 80-voice choir, but a Catholic parish of 6000 cannot find 20 able singers.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    MO

    thats because good singers want to sing real choral music - not praise and worship.

    an excellent tenor came to my choir last year hoping to sing but left to join the local community choir because he said upon leaving, you really dont even have a real choir... i snapped back, its cause of attitudes like that! he was shocked and offered to stay

    its going to take a paradigm shift to change the damaged mentality of music in the RC tradition. I was angry, embarrassed and desperate all at the same time
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    There's a number of reasons why rational people might decide to leave even if you're improving the choir:
    * They're tired of singing, and it's a convenient (less confrontational) time to leave
    * They're not confident of their ability to step up to more challenging stuff
    * It may be an "improvement" in your mind but "undesired change" in theirs
    * They need more time in their personal life - weekly practices are a large obligation
    * A friend leaves so it's not so much fun anymore

    Don't think it's necessarily a problem with YOU when someone leaves, especially if it's a time of changing directors or approaches.
  • As Carl says, it's not always you. Sometimes people get real unhappy with something else that is going on in a church and hang on only to be part of something like the choir. Then a new choir director comes in and that change pushes them over the limit of willingness to continue on in the light of this "something else" situation.

    Of course, there are also the people who spread disinformation about how things are going to be under the new...choir director, pastor, janitor...just to give people they don't like a push towards the door. The use of disinformation to deal with competitors was once taught in many US corporations.

    Disinformation is false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately with intentions of turning genuine information useless.
  • Back to the original question of what to do about this... I would like to suggest that you pray about it AND have the choir pray about it. Intentionally incorporate language that reminds choristers that they are not performing, but presenting an offering.

    I worry about this situation in the community chamber choir that I sing with. I get assigned all of the soprano solos, and the conductor even chooses feature pieces because he knows he has a professional-quality soprano and tenor soloists to work with. This is an auditioned choir, so the level of musicianship is fairly high, but I still worry about whether or not the other singers feel 'left out' at times, or if they are just happy to be able to do the kind of music that we do because of the resources that we have access to.

    I also worry about this with the (protestant) church choir that I direct. I have at least one woman that wants to sing solos, but she doesn't have the voice for it or isn't capable of carrying a part by herself unless it happens to be the melody. I had her sing a solo piece during a summer worship service, and I actually felt bad for her because it just wasn't very good, but she just doesn't see it. She is a very enthusiastic choir member and adds a great deal to the group. So far, sadly, I have just avoided the issue, or - as others have suggested - try to avoid pieces with solos in them.
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    I would say a good reminder that the music is not about THEM might do the trick. If they are envious of someone else's spotlight then they do not understand why they are there and to Whom the music is directed.

    I was once in a liturgy committee meeting (my first and last!) and another choir director mentioned that his members wanted to have a specific "choir time" meditation during Mass so that they could have the spotlight. They also wanted to be up front in the Church, which is what others in the parish wanted too. Everyone there seemed in agreement. But of course, I opened my mouth, and said that if we had the choir up front it would be like a performance and then we would lose the nature of liturgy, that it be directed towards God. Everyone else just put their heads down and looked at their papers, except by the person that told me "ministry comes from the people, from out of the pews, that is what we've always believed." I was so stunned that I just sat there.

    I suggest a retreat, led by a good spiritual director priest, to alleviate the problems in the future.
  • The retreat suggestion is an excellent idea. To be given direction by the pastor or other priest causes the choir to listen to an authority beyond the director, too.
    A choir is a team and needs to be united in purpose and mission. Having such things clearly articulated in writing, given to every choir member, and occasionally reviewed is a good thing to help refocus choirs.
  • Francesca
    Posts: 51
    Your problem seems to be both musical and spiritual.

    I like the retreat idea, or even a series of visits to choir practice by a priest or other respected person who will, in some way, make clear that envy is a sin, and how do they really expect the Lord to honor their work if they have attitudes like that? Where did they get the idea that the music was about them, or secondarily, about impressing the congregation? There's no place in Holy Scripture that encourages that idea. Music was offered to God, the Audience of One, and then He uses it for His purposes, like Jesus took the little fish and barley loaves and through that gift He fed everyone. There needs to be a spiritual paradigm shift.

    If you have standards, some people won't join, others won't stay. I train the ones who are interested, even if they have little chance of being decent singers. That's the spiritual price tag of being a good steward of those the Lord sends - to spend hours on people who might not stay, or who move just when they're a real asset. But I don't encourage people with poor voices to hope for solos (or even be alone on their part) because of the spiritual value of being honest. The truth is, God gave some people better instruments than others and that has to be faced in a culture where everyone is allegedly equal and we have to worry about their self-esteem. Those standards are lies, and music is one of the few places left where you either can or can't do the job when the time comes. Things like pitches and keys have a way of being fixed, no matter how much rationalization you throw at them.

    Ironically, people will be angry about your standards but go to a community choir where they have to audition, buy the music and a gown/suit, attend a certain number of rehearsals or not sing the big concert, and respect the conductor (i.e., no talking during rehearsals, start on time), but music offered to God in worship somehow is expected to have lower standards. Years ago I had to completely reform a choir where the community choir people strolled in and ruined it for everyone else. They couldn't make it to our rehearsals, but they couldn't miss the other ones. It caused quite a stir and there were two opinions in the church about it...until the Easter Sunday when the new choir sang (required rehearsals, auditions to explain the requirements and assign parts). Then only the die-hards complained because the difference had them all wide-eyed.

    When I come into a new church situation, I make it clear to the Pastor and choir (and they do leave just because you're new) that I require regular rehearsals, and that we will pray before rehearsal and before Masses. I don't have many singers but the ones I have are worth it.