New Graduale & Dom Saulnier
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    The Pray Tell blog posts an item simultaneously reporting that Dom Saulnier is leaving his teaching position in Rome (returning to Solesmes), and publishing a new critical edition of the Graduale Romanum!
    The sample page of the GR includes a C#! Not sure how that would work.

    Chant World News
  • awruff
    Posts: 94
    At the site Gregor und Taube ("Gregory and the Dove"), Anton Stingl has been putting up the corrected Mass propers when the working group has published another set in Beitraege zur Gregorianik. We can assume that this will match what's in the new graduale. Often enough the original melody has, according to their research, F# or C# or Eb or Ab. Here is that website:
    http://www.gregor-und-taube.de/html/materialien.htm#I.1
    awr
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    five accidentals in Gregorian chant?

    I feel like my head is going to explode. This is madness.

    What's next? Singing along with the melody a perfect interval above or below it? Using contrary motion? Adding another line to the staff?
    It's a slippery slope, I tell you!



    Seriously, though- this is crazy.
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    This is fantastic news!
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    But the new Graduale had nothing to do with Solesmes, right? Now, do we think Dom Saulnier's recall to Solesmes is a response to this so that Solesmes can get in on the action?
  • awruff
    Posts: 94
    Dom Saulnier has spoken positively to me of the research done by this German working group, even though on this or that detail he has taken a different solution in the new antiphonale. His recall to Solesmes has nothing to do with the new gradual. It's not a response to it.
    awr
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Anyone order one of these yet?
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Thanks for the reminder–-I just ordered one! And will review it on Chant Café as soon as it arrives.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    From what I read, this is the pre-order phase, and the book won't be out for some weeks.
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    The Pope was given a copy, and a demonstration:

    image.

    Goeschl appears to be demonstrating an aggressive new chironomy technique :-)
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    This is great! I hope to order one asap. The older notation has been more and more helpful and sensical to me.
    The man just to the left of the Holy Father seems to be pinching himself interiorly, "I'm really chanting for the pope!!".
    And BXVI looks pleased and even enthusiastic. Love it!
    Aggressive chironomy indeed! Is this quintessentially German? :)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Only if the name Ostrowski has a German origin.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Does anyone know if Peter Jeffery has publicly weighed in on this project?
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 833
    Is there a US supplier?
  • Bruce E. Ford
    Posts: 429
    When a chant melody has appeared in manuscripts in various "keys," chant scholars often conclude that the aurally-transmitted melody could not be written in Guidonian notation for the want of "accidentals." One scribe chose a "key" in which he could transcribe one part of the melody correctly while another scribe chose another "key" in which he could transcribe another part of the melody correctly. Modern editors attempt, by comparing the versions of such melodies found in various sources, to reconstruct the aurally-transmitted melody that the scribes were trying to record, and to record it by employing the "accidentals" that Adam Wood finds disturbing.

    The appearance of such "accidentals" in performance editions is a recent phenomenon; but they have been appearing in critical studies for some time.
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Resurrecting this. Do you all think these accidentals will be carried over into a revised Graduale Romanum according to a revised Ordo Cantus Missæ, or will they simply be shown as "transcribed" like some antiphons and psalm tones are in the Antiphonale Monasticum, ARII, and LHG according to the OCO:ETA?
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Last I heard Dom Saulnier has left Solesmes, and most of the work of the Atelier Paleographique has ground to a halt. It's why we the Antiphonale Monasticum is still missing volume IV, which had been promised for 2010, and why further volumes of Antiphonale Romanum appear far off into the future.
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Vilyanor
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Alas, Michel. It like the books have been consigned to the now dogmatically defunct limbo. Almost a double limbo, since the possible doctrine of limbo is in limbo.

    Can anyone tell me whether there's any practical difference between the Graduale Novum and what's posted on the "Gregor und Taube" website? I'm looking at creating simplified Mass Propers based on semiological scholarship as available in the Triplex, but also perhaps taking into account the corrected melodies. I'm pretty short on cash at the moment, so I'd rather stick to what I can get for free if possible. Any thoughts?
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