Darth,

Thanks for the comments.

It seems I have a bad habit of starting new threads with a post that asks too many questions and therefore, gets few responses (seemingly because people think I want an answer about every question from them personally). That is not the case; any response at all is helpful.

So yes, I'll keep commenting on my own thread to pull it to the top until I feel satisfied with the number of responses to my own post! : )

Olbash,

I was a little too vague it seems with the make-up and function of this group. Initially, I think it will be made up of Catholic children who are being homeschooled (there's a large group here in town), and may extend outwards to include others once I have a year to work the bugs out.

Saying that, we'll not have a parish affiliation; once I can elicit a decent sound and we know some repertoire, I may bring them in to sing at our weekly (Tuesday) Latin Mass, but I already have a Schola that sings for it, so weekly is probably not realistic. As far as weekend endeavours at other parishes, that's possible, but down the road a bit and a bit tricky since I have my regular church gig that conflicts.

So again, I see it as more of a "class" with that will result in some occasional "gigs." Surely this is not unprecedented . . . hmm.

Heath, 6 years ago I took a group of 30 boys and girls, ages 7-13, all of them auditioned to make sure they could at least match pitch, though I was not immediately concerned about vocal quality as I knew I could teach that. I immersed them, one hour a week in Gregorian Chant and Solfege, with the idea that, at least in the first year they would only sing occasionally. In a very short period of time they were able to sing an ordinary and Gregorian hymns, with a small adult schola providing the propers (this is a parish that uses exclusively the EF) on the first Friday of every month, and some of the simple chants of the processions of Candlemass and Palm Sunday. This was a complete experiment, my experience had been with boy choirs in England and they practiced at least three times a week in regular parishes and six times a week at the collegiate chapels of Cambridge and Oxford. I was surprised obviously by the results. In the second year I continued with solfege and Chant with the first group and started another beginning or "probationer" group. By the end of the second year I decided that the goal would be to have my choristers singing the soprano line with the choir (alto, tenor, bass) every Sunday as I had very flaky adult sopranos. As my parish is affiliated with the Royal School of Church Music I used their chorister training program (Voice for Life) which introduced modern notation and continued exercises for training their voices. By the third year I had three separate groups of Choristers-Seniors, Juniors, Probationers, following the English model, but custom fit for America and our particular circumstances at St Stephen's (Sacramento, CA). The senior choristers sing every Sunday with the Choir at the High Mass and on all Ist Class feasts, the probationer and junior rehearsals remain more of a class with only occasional "gigs"

While I had not planned on starting a choir made of Choir and Choristers it has been incredibly successful. I have over 50, about half of those being "senior" as voices change the Juniors step up and take their places, the RSCM has been wonderful for teaching modern notation, and now some of the older choristers are easily able to join the schola in singing the propers, and I provide the instruction in Chant notation and theory.

Good luck!

OCP has a wonderful offering: Dean Applegate directing his group in Portland

In a rush. Just copy and paste into browser:

http://www.ocp.org/products/12014

Might I suggest this. . .

Gregorian Chant for Kids Volume I
http://ChantforKids.com

David Smith

DL, you make excellent points. I am beginning my third year teaching music to children at a parochial school, and I also have learned from *much* trial and error. My first attempts at teaching chant were a total failure, and so I had to back off for awhile. This year, my kids are learning the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei of Mass VIII this year. I spend 5-7 minutes at the beginning of each class reviewing what was learned last class, and adding a new phrase. Any longer on a chant, and I've lost the kids' interest. I make a full-size poster of the chant, and use my Ward stick (red for "watch and listen" as I sing, and green for "sing"), sometimes singing no more than four notes at a time. Now that they've learned the Agnus Dei and are singing it beautifully at Mass (they had learned it in just five classes), they are a lot more receptive to learning the more difficult melismae of the Sanctus. They are also learning to sing psalms in English according to Mode VII, and are making great progress in this.

Each grade takes a turn to sing at Mass, so they don't sing more than one out of every five weeks. I wouldn't make the kids sing too many Masses too soon. They might be young, but they share an adult's need to know that when they sing it's quality music that they're delivering. Each success builds them up for more difficult repertoire and greater frequency in singing. Be full of genuine compliments for them, and let them know when they get compliments from others.

As far as girls and boys are concerned, I've noticed that around fifth grade boys start to develop the cultural ideology that it's not cool for boys to sing. You can counter it, but they are going to become more and more interested in singing like boys, and not like girls at this point. Before that, though, I see no issue with mixing the voices.

This year I began the Ward Method (I took the classes in D.C. this summer), and it is wonderful. It is also very time consuming. I meet with grades K-5 half an hour twice a week (doing Ward with grades 1-3), and it is hard especially with my first graders to get enough time for repertoire with them, as a lesson takes about 20 minutes. So, Ward is a great investment of time; but I think in the end totally worth it. Justine Ward was a master at keeping the students' attention, and her methods are well worth exploring. I don't think you should plan to practice with them less than an hour a week, and if you can meet with them more than once a week, you will see far greater progress. Children need lots of review time.

Amen to the need to have a well-planned lesson with short increments and lots of variety. If you decide against Ward, there are tone matching games that you can play with them as groups and individuals (Kodaly has some great ones), and getting them standing up and sitting down lots keeps them busy. Frequently point out students who sing well as models to the rest; this also keeps the rest of them on their toes, as they want to be recognized to the class too. In learning by rote, you can sing sections of a song and ask questions about it -- which note is the highest/lowest, etc.? Tell kids to stand for particular parts that they hear, and only if they have a birthday in June (for example). My kids don't get tired of standing up for different things that I ask for as I repeatedly sing parts to them, and it is a wonderful avenue for what would otherwise be boring repetition. In learning to sight sing, I've found that large posters of the music are extremely helpful. I point to the notes as we sing them, and they learn how to read in the process.

BTW, I previewed Noel's coloring book and it looks like some great material from the sight reading end of things.

Noel, I just went to look up your video, and did you know that people are being automatically re-routed from your site to something called Music WebRing? :(

"who work with children are creating a new foundation."

Two things today struck me today that relate to the above quote:'

1. I have a Ward class of homeschooled children. We are working through Ward 1 and also preparing for a High Mass in May to offer prayers for the Missionaries of the Poor. We are learning Mass IX. My 10 year old daughter is going to cantor for the first part of the Kyrie. On our ride home tonight, she asked me how it started again. I told her "It starts Re Fa Sol La..." This made sense to her, and she was able to practice her part.

2. Today, at the end of Mass, my 3 year old son Benedict was singing the Salve Regina with the congregation.

Although my efforts are far from perfect, I thank all of the hard work that so many of you have done in this new liturgical movement. I have learned from your example and your generous help. My children and many others now have to chance to pray in the heart of the Church with the treasure of Gregorian chant and Sacred Polyphony.

I would take deep issue with the notion that boys voices are the same as girls. The approach is different and the sound is different.

Sofege, reading neumes and reading 5 line notation is all within the purview of children.