Hypothetical situation on a Bishop and Mass Ordinary
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    Allow me to give you a hypothetical situation, and then comment on it:

    It's Spring 2011, the flowers are blooming, the sun is shining and suddenly a memo is issued from your Diocese Worship Office. Attached to the memo is a letter from your Bishop that says:

    Greetings Liturgical Musicians,

    As Bishop of Atlantis, I am charged with the liturgical well-being of all the faithful in Atlantis. As I'm sure you're aware by now, there will be a new text of the Mass that will begin being used in just a few months. I am hereby mandating that all sung Masses in this Diocese that use English Ordinaries are required to use the settings found in the new Missal from the first Sunday of Advent 2011 until Pentecost 2012. My reasoning in doing this is threefold:
    1) So that all Catholics in this Diocese know a common setting of the Ordinary in English for communal gatherings, Diocese events, etc...
    2) So that these new texts can be put to memory easily regardless of where in the Diocese you are attending Mass.
    3) To allow time for our Worship Office to access other new Mass Ordinaries and make suggestions for Parishes as to which ones are appropriate and well crafted.
    Therefore, I require that every Parish using English Mass Ordinaries must use these chants from Advent 2011 until Pentecost 2012. They may be sung accompanied or unaccompanied (or vary this by liturgical season). There will be training courses held at the Cathedral on every evening from Monday August X to Sunday August XVII for anyone who wishes to learn these chants and how to appropriately sing them.
    All musicians in this Diocese are reminded that use of the Latin Gregorian Masses (I-XVIII) are appropriate at any time and of course could be used in place of these chants from the new Missal.

    Faithfully Yours,
    Bishop of Atlantis"

    Comments?
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Vague. What is a "sung Mass"? (E.g., if the priest speaks the Canon, does any of this letter apply?)
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The dates need expanded to Pentecost 2013 or 14!

    To have the entire English-speaking church knowing and able to sing teh same ordinary? Isn't that what we have needed for so long. Brilliant letter, practical and doable.

    Except in Portland, OR where it would be a conflict of interest for the Bishop to do anything that would restrict profits of his own corporation, OCP.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I agree with Mark.

    If this were a real proposed letter, you really want to lock up the loopholes.

    Perhaps:
    I am hereby mandating that for any and all Masses, Liturgies, para-liturgical celebrations, or public gatherings in which any part of the Ordinary of the Mass is to be sung in English, only the chant settings found in the [official name of that thing] may be used. Any exceptions to this policy must be approved by me personally, and requests for such exceptions must be submitted in writing no less than one month before the event in question. Exceptions will only be granted for special circumstances, and will by no means be granted for regularly-scheduled Masses in parishes, schools, and other institutions.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    This is all very good, keep it up.

    Another question is - could you see this ever being done in the Diocese you live in?
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    Adam,
    A concert is a public gathering. Do you really want to bind things that tightly?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Yes. Concert organizers could ask for permission, which should be granted easily.


    I see it happening in very places. I would be thrilled if every Diocese did it, but have a hard time imagining any of them doing so.
    Also, I can think of a number of parishes that would simply ignore the mandate.
    Could you add, "on pain of death" or something? The thing needs some teeth.

    Also- exceptions should require that all involved pray a Novena for the health of Pope Benedict.

    In Latin.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    ... could you see this ever being done in the Diocese you live in?


    No, because it's apparent that the music selection process in my diocese (and ecclesiastical province) is something of a 'free-for-all'. You can easily witness a full range of musical styles, with a much heavier emphasis and preference in secular/popular/folk styles.

    You can even witness fireworks sound effects during the recessional hymn for a 4th of July Sunday Mass ...

    Also, in the years that I've been a liturgical musician within my diocese, I haven't witnessed any letters issued from the bishop concerning music. For him to order the entire diocese to only use music in the revised Missal would be very shocking.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Don't think it'd ever happen. If it did, we would immediately default to two that most already know.

    Jubilate Deo
    Missa de Angelis
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    Rumors in my archdiocese that we'd all have to learn the Unity Mass apparently turned out to be untrue (or hearts and minds were changed). Now there's going to be a list of five Masses which are suggested or recommended to all parishes, but there's no actual command.

    By the same token, I'm reluctant to force certain settings on people. It only puts their backs up, and invites the power of Murphy to swoop down and make liturgical dreams into horrible horrible nightmares.

    Gregorian Jazz or Gregorian Lifeteenish Rock, for example. Gregorian Hip Hop. Gregorian J-Pop sung in cutesy little girl voices by college-age women in mini-surplices, carrying cutesy flowers and cutesy candles in horrible neon liturgical colors.

    Oh, yes, I can imagine allllllll sorts of things. And the people who came up with liturgical dance are still out there, wafting incense about. What if they come for the choirs?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Maureen... that description ala Gregorian Jazz is priceless.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I think every English-speaking Catholic in a Diocese learning the chants from the Missal is a good thing - even if a few parishes choose not to attend the workshops and instead do "Jazz" Missal chants or "Lifeteen" Missal chants. That way the Catholics in the Jazz or Lifeteen Masses will at least learn the melodies of these chants and then when they attend Mass at another Parish and hear them done right they:

    A) Recognize the melody and can sing
    B) Appreciate the more artistic and beautiful way it's being sung here
    C) Decide to attend Mass there regularly, abandoning the Jazz/Lifeteen Mass.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I think parishes doing Jazz/Pop arrangements of the ICEL chants would be better than more renditions of the popular Mass settings currently in use or proposed by the major publishers- for all the reasons matthewj points out.
    How neat would it be if people who had sung a Jazz Mass or a Pop Mass or whatever were together for a big conference or whatever and suddenly realized they had been singing chant all along?

    The Mass of Creation took off in a such a big way because it was flexible- you could do it with an orchestra and choir, or with just a cantor and guitarist. It adapted itself to the needs, skills, and musical tastes of different congregations and communities.
    Except, not being chant based, it didn't really support a cappella singing. You could never strip everything out and get to its essence.

    If there were a way to adapt the new ICEL chants (or some other plainchant English setting) so that it could be done in as many different configurations as possible, that would be amazing.

    I know what some of you are thinking, though- that's like encouraging guitars and pianos and drums and all that hoopla at Mass.
    Yeah- except that's gonna happen anyway. My idea would at least provide us with a common repertoire and bring the Folk Mass masses one step closer to a chanted Ordinary.

    If I had the chops, I would be writing this setting right now. Even so, I'll probably giving this some kind of attempt anyway.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    The Mass of Creation took off in a such a big way because it was flexible ... It adapted itself to the needs, skills, and musical tastes of different congregations and communities.


    Mass of Creation at 25 by Marty Haugen
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Interesting viewpoint, Adam. I'd have to agree with you. I had my first real chant experience through the Durufle Requiem. If people can be led to chant through it being enrobed in French Impressionism or guitars and bongos - does it matter? Is it better than no chant at all? I don't know.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    How neat would it be if people who had sung a Jazz Mass or a Pop Mass or whatever were together for a big conference or whatever and suddenly realized they had been singing chant all along? ... My idea would at least provide us with a common repertoire and bring the Folk Mass masses one step closer to a chanted Ordinary.


    Which is better at Mass?

    Gregorian trance

    or Mass of Glory
    Glory to God
    Holy
    Lamb of God
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    If only....

    No, this would be unlikely to happen in my diocese because our bishop's favorite music at Mass is Halle-halle-halle... would it blend well, stylistically speaking? i think not.

    I suggest those with the skill set about writing accompaniments for the new Missal chants, in as large a number of combinations of instruments as feasible, making the chants available in different keys, write guitar chords and piano arrangements, write parts for B flat instruments, compose Byzantine or Ruthenian style harmonization for them...who knows, if using the Missal chants was the easiest way out for most parishes, priests and musicians, it might happen.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    G-
    YES!
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