Source for Texts....
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    How does one go about finding the exact texts for the daily Gradual in the Romanum and Simplex...in relation to the Responsorial Psalm texts...aside from buying them and flipping through pages...It seems there should be a chart someplace?

    Thanks for any guidance you might be able to give...

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    Graduale Romanum. (Solesmes) Graduale simplex. Ordo cantus missae. (Not always exactly the same indications)
    Responsorial Psalm: Ordo lectionum missae. Missale romanum cum lectionibus. (Out of print)

    Graduale simplex and the Ordo are available on paxbook, ed vaticana.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Jevoro,

    Thanks...so does the Ordo cantus list the Romanum and simplex or do you mean that they may vary from the Ordo...and from each other?

    So there could be up to three different texts for the Gradual for that day....? Or just a difference between the Romanum and simplex. I am trying to fully understand all this.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    I don't own the ordo cantus missae, i just comanded it and wait for the shipping. Si i don't know what's his content.
    For the Graduale/Responsorial Psalm, effectivly, you have the melismatic graduel in the Graduale, and the Psalm with his refrain in the lectionnary. Besides that, you have the proposition of psalmus responsorius in the Graduale simplex, and a choice of easier refrains and psalms for every opportunity in the lectionnary.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    The ordo cantus missae contains actual chants and texts for those that are "new" with the new liturgy. Otherwise, it simply references the old Graduale.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    that's what i want to see: what new texts the Ordo cantus misae will propose.. the same as the antiphonae in the Missale?
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Perhaps this is a good thread to ask my question... I sang for a low EF Mass on the Saturday before Palm Sunday... I have been doing Introit, Offertory and Communion propers even when it is a low Mass and then adding an appropriate hymn at the end. When I looked for the propers for that day, I was unable to find any in the Liber Usualis for the Saturday before Palm sunday. Is there some particular reason? I looked in my (old) LU and also on the online (1961) version... same thing in both places.

    My pastor found the propers as: Introit -- Miserere mei, Domine, quoniam tribuor: conturbatus est in ira oculus meus...
    Gradual: Pacifice loquebantur mihi inimici mei...
    Offertory: Benedictus es, Domine, doceme justifications tuas: et non tradas me calumniantibus me superbis...
    Communion: Ne tradideris me in animas tribulantium me, quoniam...

    Looking in the LU index, I wasn't able to find them listed at all... so am puzzled. Theoretically speaking, if one were to try to sing propers for that day, what should they be and where would one find them?

    Since this is obviously after the fact, it will only come into question again next year... but I thought folks would have more time for this after Holy Week!

    Thanks,

    Janet.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Janet -

    Check out the Graduale Romanum (1961) posted here:
    http://www.musicasacra.com/pdf/graduale1961.pdf
    It has all of the proper chants for Mass said according to the Missale Romanum of 1962.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Arthur... I have that one downloaded and on my computer and it doesn't have anything on it about that particular day as far as propers for the Mass... Even looking under the date (March 15), I found no guidance... but I am new to this, so perhaps I just don't know where to look?

    Janet.
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 804
    No chart is yet compiled, AFAIK, that gives the chant propers for the day. There is also no index of Scripture citations for these.

    Either of these would be hugely useful projects for those of us who use the chant proper texts in music planning.

    Also, the Graduale Simplex does not contain “propers” except for certain occasions. The chants it contains for the entrance, offertory, and communion are meant for entire liturgical seasons; ergo, they are not “proper” in the sense of being assigned to specific days.
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    Janet, Interesting puzzle. As you've noticed, the Liber Usualis doesn't have every weekday Mass, but the Graduale Romanum does. Granted, the directions for this particular day are a little terse. The 1961 Graduale has the following rubrical note:
    "Sabbato post Dominicam I Passionis, adhibeatur Missa diei praecedentis, 163, excepto Tractu qui omittur."
    Which I would translate loosely as: For the Saturday after the First Sunday of the Passion, the Mass of the preceding day (page 163) is used, except the Tract, which is omitted.

    The Saturday after the First Sunday of the Passion is the Saturday before Palm Sunday (aka Second Sunday of the Passion). The texts and chants given by your pastor are indeed the ones shown for the Friday (Feria VI) after FIrst Passion Sunday, omitting the Tract given for Friday. Not all Lenten weekdays have Tracts.

    One of the tricky things about following the pre-Vatican II liturgical books is reading the Latin rubrics. I'm very happy to have access to a Liber Usualis with the introduction and rubrics given in English. For the Graduale, I only see rubrics in Latin. Hope this helps.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Janet - Saturday before Palm Sunday is referenced on page 165 of the 1961 Graduale. At the bottom of the page, it says:
    Sabbato post Dominicam I Passionis, adhibeatur Missa diei praecedentis, 163, excepto Tractu qui omittitur.
    Translated (roughly): Saturday after the 1st Sunday of the Passion, use the preceding day on page 163, except for the Tract which is omitted.
    Then on p. 163 we find Feria Sexta (6) post Dominicam I Passionis (Friday after the 1st Sunday of the Passion) with the proper chants.

    I notice, however, that the texts given to you by your pastor, while similar to the Graduale, don't really match: the Introit and Communion texts appear to be from the Nova Vulgata.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 964
    Well, I thank you very much for the help... I found them all even in my new Graduale Romanum once I knew where to look (albeit with the differences in text you mentioned, Arthur). Thank you so much! How I wish I had ordered my Graduale from CanticaNova with the English Latin translation :) I'll know to look more closely at the online Graduale for these unusual things in the future... and hopefully be able to decipher it!

    Janet.
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