From a parish website:
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Music Ministry

    Mr. ______ leads Music Ministry
    Music Ministry - A New Beginning

    As Comets took their place in the gym for the first mass of the school year, little did they know that they would be listening to a new Music Ministry under a new director who is determined to bring the music back to the masses in a powerful way. Additionally, students, faculty and staff were shocked and excited when senior xxx xxxxxx ended mass with a rock concert solo in the middle of “ Trading My Sorrows.” This unexpected twist has set the tone for the many masses to come at SCC.

    Before the start of school, ___________, religion teacher and music ministry sponsor, held practices in order to begin preparations for mass celebrations at St. _____ Catholic High School. With more than 40 years of music experience, ____ is ready and willing to take over the post.

    Mr. ___ said “ I have been doing music ministry for 45 years and I have played shows with the Damians in 37 states and Europe.” ____ said I also have 2 songs to my credit, ‘Sing Hallelujah’ and ‘All That We Have’.”

    There are no requirements to join music ministry other than wanting to sing or being able to play an instrument. Music Ministry practices Tuesday at the second half of lunch
    and after school on Thursday.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Masses and church services in Gyms never made sense to me. Must they really be able to play basketball RIGHT after church?
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Notice you only have to want to sing, but you have to be able to play an instrument.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 833
    Priests who allow this kind of sacrilege should have their faculties suspended and their further suitability for public ministry scrutinized.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    You know, at first I thought that concealing his name, Ault, would be polite. But now I have changed my mind.
  • Erik P
    Posts: 152
    .
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    You know, somehow I was already suspicious when it said:

    "Music Ministry-A New Beginning"

    Why don't you just call yourself a choir?

    And what is this, ahem, "New Beginning"?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Realization that after drugs comes enlightenment. Maybe he chose not to inhale.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I'm sorry, folks, but I protest the uncharitable caricatures of people of the Boomer generation lumped into the "aging hippy" model. Really.
    I've met, and even befriended some of these names over my forty years, and have run into them occasionally at parish assignments where it is unfortunately apparent they've remained entrenched in stasis and novelty. But this is not true for all of us seasoned citizens. We've kept up with the curve, we've negotiated political minefields in parish after parish and still bring our A game to the table every Sunday.
    We don't encounter such name-calling at colloquium. Must we be like other forums and accept these bow shots as S.O.P.? Who benefits from this nastiness?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    My question, along similar lines as Charles, is "who cares?" It doesn't sound like any sort of Mass I would want to be at, nor one I'd be likely to ever walk into. We have better things to do here than grump because someone, somewhere, isn't celebrating a High Mass.
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    As one too quickly approaching old geezer status, I second Charles' words of wisdom. If the chant-polyphony liturgical model is ever to enjoy favored status, it will be because its advocates not only clearly and persistently articulate a point of view but demonstrate kindly forbearance while doing so. Having been in this business for many years, I understand the therapeutic need to vent and the comfort that comes from knowing others share the same frustrations, but the CMAA forum - the public face of our movement - is not the place to do so.
  • Pes
    Posts: 623
    a new director who is determined to bring the music back to the masses in a powerful way

    Does it bother anyone else when "Mass" is not capitalized? It bugs me; it tends to correlate with a careless secularity. What bugs me more is the me, me, me aspect of this person's initiative.

    What does the Church say, Mr. Christian Rock Guitar Hero Person?

    *crickets*

    This sort of preening immaturity makes one cringe.
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 833
    Perhaps a more focused statement would have pointed out the ludicrous and often destructive way that some people--in this case some Catholics and particularly some low-level amateur musicians--continue after 40 or more years to live out their adolescent rebellion and to visit it on others.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I agree that there should be no name calling...but I also feel that Daneil Bennett Page's comment was right on the nose and does belong.

    And as long as we are on the subject, an "older" priest told a friend yesterday that the problem with the renovation of the liturgy is that it is being proposed by young priests just out of seminar who have not had to deal with parish responsibilities, conflicts and are not seasoned enough to deal with this.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Point taken, DBP. However, as in all things local, the fact that the musician in (Noel's) question continues to visit his "talents" upon any worship community is the result, as you point out, of a hapless pastor's lack of knowledge, vision, discretion, etc., AND perhaps a lack of qualified applicants.
    I don't buy the "young Turk" argument for the impetus of RoR; I do think that any priest who has unwittingly resigned his work week to the myriad of those parish responsibilities AT THE EXPENSE of his attention to all the details necessary to prepare his parish for the rites that are our beings' "source and summit" will likely lapse into even more distractions and perhaps retreat from effective leadership altogether.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Well, doesn't it make sense to be upset about the fact that this is going on in your Church? Some things along these lines approach sacrilege and blasphemy. I'm not saying this particular example does but, if that kind of thing is going on in your church, it's right to be upset. If I knew that there were priests doing the Divine Liturgy in gyms with rock guitars ... I'd freak out. But since these folks've been doing this for years now, Catholics are supposed to just accept it? That's how all this stuff gets foisted on people in the first place; people just do something (like having altar girls) and then the powers that be capitulate because they've been at it for so long.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Dear Jam,
    Don't know if your remarks were made in general or in response, but it's quite appropriate to be upset, protest and even actively resist liturgical abuses in one's parish. Going out looking for such anomalies and then bringing up the tired "same old, same old" here in these forums, which then promote stereotyping, hence division among US in this cyber-community, is wholly unnecessary. IMO, YMMV.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Daneil Bennett Page's comment was right on the nose and does belong.

    Second your thoughts!! And I'm a boomer, so I'm entitled (and qualified) to observe that there are some addles which only cannabis-use can explain.
  • Randolph Nichols
    Posts: 398
    The issue is not whether one should be upset by liturgical abuse, but rather the manner and venue in which disgust should be aired. I’ve had some success through the years swaying opinions on liturgical music, a slow carefully thought out process that sometimes includes suggestions to check out the CMAA website. While the not-yet-convinced visit the website I don’t want them to stumble into a mudslinging diatribe. To do so could quite possibly undo what we all are trying to achieve.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    "Bring the music back to the masses" really is an unfortunate choice of words. It sounds like a slogan from the entertainment industry, but of course sacred music is not about entertainment for the congregation. It is an adornment for our worship, and as such it is offered not to the congregation, but to God. It should be as beautiful as we can make it, and not just something easy and minimally functional. Such music can be good, but we can aspire to better things, and God deserves the best we can give.

    Music for the Mass should be sacred and noble, in the words that are sung, in the style of the music and in the instrumentation used. Also, we should be singing the Mass itself -- the ordinary parts and the proper parts -- and not merely some incidental religious songs that are arbitrarily grafted onto the Mass.
  • tomgiuliano
    Posts: 17
    Could the 'masses' in the "Bring back the music" quote be alluding to the congregation (the masses) as opposed to the liturgies (the Masses) hence the lower case? Just thinking aloud. Age shouldn't matter although I regularly tease my schola director about his being the same age as my daughter. As a boomer allow me to dredge up another dated phrase, peaceful co-existence.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    tomgiuliano-
    yes, it seems that "masses" is referring to the original use of the word; while using it with a double-meaning.

    But, besides...we speak English, not German. "Mass" is not a proper name, and therefore I do not see why it should be capitalized.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Holy Mass?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Unfortunately, choosing to ignore the abuses and not comment upon them can give people the impression that we condone them.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Noel, mon frere, the only impression with which we should concern ourselves is that of the Almighty's thumbprint upon our hearts, spirits and minds, as articulated by the wisdom and Traditions of Holy Mother Church. Regarding ignoring "the abuses," I defer to the principle of first checking for logs in my eyes before weighing in on the specks in my brothers'. You cannot possibly believe that the "clientele" of the above unfortunate Catholic high school checks the MS Forum to see if they measure up in orthodoxy and praxis, no?
    If what we do here matters in a larger sense to "people," then we should shout from the rooftops the names of "Burke, Bruskewitz, Serratelli, Chaput, Vigneron, Cordileone, George.....et al" because therein lies the real future of what emerges from our seminaries.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Re: Mass with a big em -- I know this gives me away as a conservative (read: obedient) Catholic, but I use it anyway. My dictionary gives both upper- and lowercase em's, both referring to the sacred liturgy. But a quick google search of "changing of the guard" brings up a first hit and a wikipoedia (that's how we spelled wikipoedia when I was your age) article that both render it as "Changing of the Guard." I think capitalization of "Mass" falls under the same rule; it need not be a proper name.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Yes, it is very important the the Liturgy of the Hours, the Gospel, and especially (Holy) Mass be capitalized. All sacraments, too. When we take away that capital, somehow I can't but think it reflects (subliminally?) a casual attitude toward the "source and summit" of our Faith. It's a good Catholic custom, too, in general.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    My two cents. Music is a symptom, not a cause of problems in Catholic worship here in the U.S. If we can re-orient the Mass to its proper direction, rock, jazz, country, what have you, will seem terribly out of place to everyone. As long as the Mass is viewed by congregants as an event that nourishes them directly, they will want music that most directly does this. Rock and pop musicians are not evil and most are very devout Catholics who are being used by clergy who have not been trained to compete with the Protestants and engage the congregation at Mass. This is the bitter fruit of Vatican II's opening to the world. We should be bringing the world the Church, not the other way around. Fix that and music takes care of itself.
  • amanda.palisteramanda.palister
    Posts: 82
    Hour and twenty minute Mass + coffee & donut social afterwards = basketballs and folk guitars abound. In the gym. For at least the past twenty years. :)

    Mandee
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    Well, there isn't wrong with having a social afterward, is there? All Orthodox churches have either a coffee hour or a full potluck lunch after the Divine Liturgy. It fosters community and such. Of course, the Liturgy is a good one hour forty-five or two hours long (even longer if you come to Matins) and the coffee hour is always started by a communal prayer when the priest comes down.

    I think the real problem is exactly what Mr. O'Connor has said. As long as people view the Mass as something for them, rather than something from them to God, then they will be concerned with their personal preferences and what makes them "feel good" rather than what ought to be there. And when I say "for them" I mean something along the lines of entertainment... of course the Mass is for the people of God in a spiritual healing kind of way.
  • amanda.palisteramanda.palister
    Posts: 82
    Absolutely. The power of the Cross. Amazing. We focus on that, and like he said, "the music takes care of itself."

    Sorry, I couldn't resist the basketballs in the gym reference! There is a time and a place of course...

    Mandee
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I agree entirely with Michael and often blame all liturgical problems on the reorientation of the altars. ANY of the other (licit) liturgical changes could have taken place (English, new missal, encouragement of new musical forms, stripping down ritual action, etc) and we would not have such widespread problems. But as soon as Catholics got it in their heads to face the congregation (I don't know where from... protestants were still facing the table for communion) everything went haywire.

    Mind you, there are some good reasons for versus populum, and it does have some historic precedent. But it was disastrous paired with the sentiment present in the world and church at the time.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    It doesn't have historic precedent, as far as I've seen. In the big churches, like St. Peter's Basilica, with Western-facing altars, the priest would face East, so the people would be in front of him, yes. But during the Eucharistic prayers at least, all the people would turn to face East as well. Worship has always been AD ORIENTEM -- toward the East. In the past there was a huge focus on the literal East, although over time we've adopted the idea of a "liturgical east" -- and of course if the priest is going to face liturgical east, that's gotta be the back wall where the tabernacle is.

    I agree with you that it was the versus populum that started Catholics down this long and harrowing road to liturgical chaos. It totally changed the focus both of the congregation and the priest onto human, rather than heavenly, things.
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