New tunes in Divine Office Hymnal
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 176
    I've been looking at the two tunes CHORIAMBUS and TOTHILL in the book from GIA. I cannot find a composer's name for either, only the copyright holder (ICEL). Any ideas of the identity?
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 650
    i know a Sister that helped find most of those tunes. Although I dont know them myself, she mentioned that most of them came from Catholic Hymnals from England and from what the English Conference was using for their LOH hymns. So contacting their office might give you a lead.
    Thanked by 1Diapason84
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 176
    Interesting, thanks. It just seemed strange to me that these two tunes' composers are unidentified, unless they wanted it that way.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    Hymnary.org is your friend:

    https://hymnary.org/tune/choriambus_icel
    https://hymnary.org/tune/tothill_icel

    Both are attributed to ICEL.

    In the book itself, it literally says "Meloldy: Tothill, 10 10 10 4; ICEL, 2021."

    That is literally it. That's the credit.

    That means that the information has been deliberately withheld for whatever reason. Since there are religious who work on that committee, this is hardly surprising. Many religious choose to do things like this in such a way that "only God knows". The tunes may have also been composed and edited/changed by multiple people, making a single attribution inappropriate. The reason is ultimately immaterial.
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 176
    Yes, I'm familiar with hymnary.org. Thanks for the citation also.

    As in some other posts, however, I find the rest of your response a bit dismissive: "literally says," "hardly surprising," "single attribution inappropriate," "ultimately immaterial." A word of advice: regulate the tone even if the facts are accurate. Four such phrases are packed into one short forum post. Not everyone around here is familiar with the quirks and minutiae of liturgical publishing.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    I'm sorry that you found the tone offensive. One of the issues with written text, I'm afraid. All of those phrases can be said in multiple tones of voice, and mine wasn't meaning to be demeaning, but you couldn't know that from your end, so I certainly don't fault you, alas. (I call to mind Bp. Sheen's anecdote about our Lady's famous "How can this be since I have known no man?". Most people think Mary was doubting the angel, when according to Sheen, she was asking in excitement, "How is it going to happen [since it can't be the normal way]?!")

    I suspect your inquiries would be denied (if only because they seem to have deliberately withheld the information) but you could always reach out to ICEL for more info and see if they are willing to share.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,550
    I seem to remember some sort of dubious activity about anonymity / early release of information and the 2011 Missal translation. I wouldn't be able to remember details, but I think I remember that someone took credit for an individual piece of musical composition. The details don't matter except to say that it seems to be important to ICEL to have everything considered part of the group project rather than an individual accomplishment. There may not be further details forthcoming regarding the provenance of the tune.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Felicia
    Posts: 176
    This is a change from the ICEL Resource Collection of 1981. Contributors of both texts and music were duly acknowledged in that collection.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    That was nigh 50 years ago at this point. So much has changed culturally, liturgically, and even in terms of copyright law, that it's not surprising their policies might be different after all this time. It's also possible that the former contributors composed melodies that ICEL chose to adopt and license, whereas the new composers might have been composing "as ICEL" (contractually speaking).
    Thanked by 2Kathy Felicia
  • Felicia
    Posts: 176
    Good point. ICEL had invited submissions, and the hymnal included a list of the people whose material was selected. I don't remember what the selection criteria were (I don't have the hymnal handy), but I think contributors were required to submit examples of their work.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen ServiamScores
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 176
    One of the issues with written text, I'm afraid.


    Nope. Writing in a descriptive and dispassionate way can avoid the issues in your first response.

    This is a change from the ICEL Resource Collection of 1981. Contributors of both texts and music were duly acknowledged in that collection.


    Interesting. Thanks.

  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,445
    Diapason84, I already apologized. But it is also clear that you are being way too sensitive about this.
    Thanked by 2MatthewRoth tomjaw
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,415
    Interesting discussion. I have not yet seen the Divine Psalter Hymnal, so I am wondering if it includes hymn tunes that are not copyrighted by ICEL.
  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 613
    The vast majority are public domain.
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