Compline Psalms
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 3,032
    The Liber usualis has the (4) Psalms of Compline to tone viii, as though this were the only possibility. Earlier publications of alternatim polyphony however are varied: for Cum invocarum Giulio Belli has tone viii, Trabaci tone vii? on la, Willaert tone vi; for In te Domine speravi viii, ? on re, i; for Qui habitat i, vii, i. Can anyone (ahem) point me to notated sources for these chants?
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 466
    You mean to chant books of local traditions which had more variable Compline (with psalmody antiphons - and therefore psalm tones - varying according to season and feast) than the post-Tridentine Roman Office?
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 466
    E.g. in the diocesan rite/use of Prague (which is, of course, not the tradition Belli, Trabaci or Willaert wrote their settings for) the mode VII antiphon Cum iucunditate ... sanctae Mariae celebremus was used for Compline psalms of most Marian feasts.
    Cf. my edition (at the time of writing still incomplete; pdf download available under "Releases").
    Thanked by 3OMagnumMysterium CHGiffen Richard Mix
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,851
    Tone 8G is the only possibility on feasts of the Roman rite. The idea that Compline changes daily, even on feasts, is a novelty outside of the Triduum, the vigil, and the octave of Easter. Other usages had different practices, but the Roman office is very conservative here.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 466
    The idea that Compline changes daily, even on feasts, is a novelty

    You mean like a 12th c. novelty? :)
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,851
    No, and your trolling is exasperating especially when you don’t make an assertion with evidence. The Benedictine psalter also never varied Compline.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 466
    I will work to enlarge my English vocabulary to be able to return insults; you on the other hand could use some restraint.

    Quickly I can prove only 13th c. If you want to declare it a victory ("trolling and baseless claims indeed!"), so be it. I'll make sure to get back to this thread later.

    Manuscript IV.D.9 of Národní knihovna České republiky, second half of the 13th c., has several distinct parts:
    In the liber ordinarius part, e.g. on f. 98r see Compline after first Vespers of Christmas, with repertory matching my edition (proper Nunc dimittis antiphon Dum ortus fuerit); 98v Compline after second Vespers (proper antiphon super psalmos, hymn, Nunc dimittis antiphon, ...).
    In the liber intonationum part, e.g. on f. 128v the antiphon Dum ortus fuerit (Christmas) has rubric "ad completorium"; on f. 130r the antiphon Stella ista (Epiphany) has the same rubric.

    [EDIT] The manuscriptorium.com link changed to open the site with user interface in English.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 3,032
    In an historical view 1911 seems the novelty. I first started with wondering why Lassus set Nunc Dimittis in so many modes, then discovered some of the antiphons in surviving in the Sarum use.

    I'm trying to get the hang of navigating Igneus' site: does "Releases" hide beneath another menu? What I would ideally like, and it seems it would be a long shot, is pointing for the Psalms in case an organ is unavailable (again, pace 1911!) when we sing Willaert, Trabaci & Belli.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 466
    I could have just posted a direct link to the most recent pdf.

    What I would ideally like, and it seems it would be a long shot, is pointing for the Psalms in case an organ is unavailable (again, pace 1911!) when we sing Willaert, Trabaci & Belli.

    My edition of the Prague Compline will certainly not help with that. It's only really useful as a readily available example of a diocesan rite which had variable Compline propers.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix CHGiffen
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 260
    Aren't you both agreeing that the Roman rite is invariable with mode 8 and that other uses had other options? What is the disagreement here?
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,851

    I will work to enlarge my English vocabulary to be able to return insults; you on the other hand could use some restraint.


    Well, I didn’t insult you, but I don’t consider your interaction very helpful.


    If you want to declare it a victory ("trolling and baseless claims indeed!"), so be it. I'll make sure to get back to this thread later.


    This is just generally rude, since you’ve brought up manners.


    Other usages had different practices, but the Roman office is very conservative here.


    As our other interlocutor notes, I was speaking of the Roman office in itself, not other usages, that kept the office the same. I was particularly exasperated because it seems that I may well have been missing something about the usage of Rome itself, although I was pretty sure that I wasn’t, that from time immemorial in the fullest sense, Compline was always the same, as it is for Benedictines, which was not the case in other places and in religious orders.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 3,032
    Thanks Igneus; not exactly what I need for the Venetian/Neapolitan composers but very interesting nonetheless.
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