ADVICE NEEDED: Struggling to pick music for children's school masses this year
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Hey! First time posting on the forum. Happy to be here.
I am the music teacher/choir director for my parish's elementary/middle school. I'm about to start my third year with the school. I have the general support of my priest (a based trad, btw) to make whatever choices I desire in programming the music, but I feel that there could be some trouble on the horizon. I will explain.
I came into my first year as music teacher following a teacher who (according to my husband, who went to the school) programmed the SAME THREE PSALMS over and over, programmed "kiddy" folksy music which was better suited for a campfire, and kept the same mass setting for at least 15 years (seriously- my husband really thought that the Mass of Joy and Peace was the ONLY mass setting in existence!). When I came on, I deliberately didn't make waves, but rather chose to make tiny changes to the music programmed for the school masses. I kept the children's hymnal (Rise Up and Sing), but I introduced the seasonal Marian antiphons (in English) as post-communion meditations, and opted for reverent, chant-based mass settings outside of Ordinary Time. We even chanted the mass setting in Latin during Lent!
I was heavily pregnant at the beginning of my second year, and gave birth in September. I had a trustworthy sub who played the piano and sang the hymns I programmed during my leave. He also helped get my choir prepared for our first Lessons & Carols service that winter. Because my adorable, new responsibility took up so much of my time and headspace, I generally programmed songs which I knew the students would heartily participate in. I also took suggestions from teachers who had been at the school masses for many more years than myself. This included quite a few praise and worship songs from 80's and 90's CCM. A lot of the choir kids told me that they loved singing the "new stuff" ("new" meaning songs I sang growing up in a non-denom church- "old" to me!), and that they resonated strongly with the songs' messages. I was initially pleased that the songs I picked were well-received by the kids.
Earlier this summer, however, I was struck one morning over coffee with a strong desire to work towards increasing faith and reverence in both the parish and the school. How could God use me/the gifts He gave me to bring people closer to Him? I have long since known the effects of music on the heart and mind. The role of the music director ought to be to use music to help the people realize that they are truly in the house of the Lord, and that He is truly present, and that they ought to surrender themselves to Him in worship as they would in Heaven... correct?
So, ... how can I do that? In reviewing the children's hymnal (again, Rise Up and Sing), there are several truly awful songs which I decided years ago to never program (one song mentions people from other planets being welcome in the family of God!!!). Other songs held some nostalgia for me (I came to the Catholic faith in a Novos Ordo, folk mass parish), but in studying the texts, I don't feel very good in using them for mass. Perhaps I could teach them in class as "Catholic 'folk' songs"?
Basically, the only songs in Rise Up and Sing which I felt good about using were all written/composed before the 20th century. These are songs along the lines of "The King of Love My Shepherd Is", and "I Sing the Mighty Power of God". I wanted to avoid any semblance of horizontal worship (prevalent in CCM and folksy Catholic songs), and strove to pick hymns which revered God and gave Him glory (as well as reflect the daily readings). I'm also utilizing more "grown up" songs from RitualSong (which the parish uses on the weekends) so that the middle schoolers don't feel like they're singing "kiddy" songs. For the choir, we'll be singing reverent selections from Hymns for the Family of God and an antique copy of the St. Basil Hymnal for the preparation hymns.
You may think, "Hey, sounds like you've got this figured out!" Wellllll,... I can already hear certain other teachers complaining about the songs I will program. I've gotten complaints before for not programming songs such as "A Circle of Love", or "Taste and See", ... or "On Eagle's Wings".
"The kids won't know the old songs!" Well, I'm making sure to program them several times throughout the year so that the kids can become more familiar with them.
"The kids don't understand the Latin!" I make sure to review the literal and poetic translations of the Latin in the various music classes, and I teach the kids the chants as part of their weekly music lessons.
As a preemptive olive branch, I'm also making sure to program popular communion hymns which the kids will certainly be familiar with, but I plan on slowly phasing them out, and replacing them with hymns which are more firmly rooted in Catholic teaching.
Fellow (more experienced) music educators/school music directors- how do you plan your music for the year? Were you ever in my place? Did you ever have to transition from child-centric services to truly worshipful masses? I need advice, and perhaps even affirmation.
Pax,
JBuckCC -
If you have a choir, why not teach them to sing simpler propers in English? Getting away from “singing songs at Mass” would be most desirable. If the choir sings them well, people probably won’t complain because they’re being sung by children. I would recommend Fr Samuel’s propers as a goal. But, depending on their level of skill and rehearsal time, you may have to begin with Simple English Propers.
I think it is generally advisable to change Mass settings before changing songs or hymns (or propers). Don’t be afraid to mix and match different movements of different Masses in order to compromise. Changing all the movements at once is a lot for a congregation to adjust to. -
Your long term goal should be to transition the school Mass to the same repertoire that is used for weekend Masses. (Assuming this is good rep). The children are not taught kid math, or kid English, and they don’t need kid music. They should be learning music now that will nurture their spiritual lives throughout adulthood.
That’s the angle to take. -
So, I may be in a minority here but I do enjoy the work with school Masses (and the spirited debates surrounding them). First, a very helpful resource is the NCEA list of music for school Masses. Second, make no concessions when it comes to communion music. If you are scheduling Eucharistic themed music during the distribution of Holy Communion, do not settle for deficient theology. You can "give in" with cute fun kiddy songs at the recessional. Third, work hard to replace "Rise Up and Sing" your work will always be hindered by bad tools, and that objectively is a bad tool.
My "blueprint" for a school Mass is this:
Entrance: Same hymn as what you heard from the preceeding weekend since the OT antiphons carry over through the week
Psalm: I do use seasonal psalms mostly unless the day is a feast or a solemnity, then we use the proper psalm.
Offertory: I will attempt to tie this into the Gospel if I am able
Communion 1: I will use the same communion song for a month/Season
Communion 2: Taken from the preceeding weekend.
Recessional: I will choose a hymn from the NCEA list and keep it for a month
Mass setting is almost always the same as the weekend setting.
It has been a very logical way of incorporating the parish music into the life of the school so that the school truly subjects itself as an apostulate of the parish, especially in worship. -
Mattspmusic0320, thank you for recommending the list! I'm reviewing it now and am quite inspired!
Thank you also for the correction regarding communion music. I'll review my selections and remove the ones I know to be deficient. I love, love, LOVE "Sweet Sacrament", so I'll teach them that instead!
I'll talk with my priest and principal re: the children's hymnals.
I like your blueprint. Since starting at the school, I have insisted on doing the psalm of the day, just so the kids hear the treasure trove of prayers provided for us by the Lord.Thanked by 1Abbysmum -
Welcome to the forum, JBuckCC! and congratulations on the baby, and kudos for approaching your vocation as a sacred musician with such zeal and thoughtfulness. Wanting to move away from horizontal, entertainment-focused music and toward authentic sacred worship is a worthy goal.
Since you're looking to replace Rise Up and Sing with stronger repertoire, I'd highly recommend Sister Mary Editha, B.V.M.'s A Child's Book of Hymns.
It's a wonderful collection of traditional Catholic hymns selected specifically for children. I show picturs of this hymn book with index in the story above. This collection of hymns was published in 1927. If you are interested just PM.
One of the hymns in the collection "Jesus, Thou Art Coming," I learned for my first communion back in '67. After fifty years of choral service, I still remember it - although the melody we learned was from the St. Gregory's Choir Book.Thanked by 1JBuckCC -
Oh wow, Rise Up and Sing. I remember singing from that in my youth. I still hum "and there is more joy in heaven... when the lost one has returned", nearly 25 years after I learned it.
Just echoing that change comes SLOWLY. Like, glacially slow. -
I am currently completing a Master's degree at the University of Mary in Bismarck (highly recommend). One of the assignments for the Sacred Music class was to develop a retreat and a workshop for musicians on a pertinent issue surrounding sacred music. I choose to focus on the issues related to school liturgies being treated as something outside of the life of the parish. Many of my classmates were unaware of the Directory for Masses with Children, so here are a few quotes I felt were good to share:
Selections from the Directory of Masses with Children
▪ “The Church must show special concern for baptized children who have yet to be fully initiated through the Sacraments of Confirmation and Eucharist as well as for children who have only recently been admitted to Holy Communion. Today the circumstances in which children grow up are not favorable to their spiritual progress. [1] In addition parents sometimes scarcely fulfill the obligations they accepted at the Baptism of their children to bring them up as Christians” (1).
▪ “The Church baptizes children and therefore, relying on the gifts conferred by the sacrament, it must be concerned that once baptized they grow in communion with Christ and each other” (8).
▪ “Within the Christians Communion, godparents or other person noted for their dedicated service can, our of apostolic zeal, contribute greatly to the necessary catechesis in the case of families that fail int heir obligation toward the children’s Christian upbringing. […] Within religious education programs in the school and parishes the necessary importance should be given to catechesis on the Mass. [14] This catechesis should be directed to the child’s active, conscious, and authentic participation.” (11-12).
▪ “It is always necessary to keep in mind that these Eucharistic Celebrations must lead children toward the celebration of Mass with adults, especially in the Masses at which the Christian community must come together on Sundays” (21).
A few activities and notes also from the presentation draft:
a) Children and Chant: Proclaimed Plain and Clear
b) The simplicity of chant is good for children and luckily in 2026 we have many resources which lend themselves towards teaching children to chant.
c) Chant is a great way to introduce students to solfege singing.
d) Simpler collections of chant are available and Mass ordinaries are repeatable.
e) Fr. Samuel Weber’s collections scale the difficulty of vernacular Chant from simple psalm tones to more melismatic antiphons.
f) There are many good vernacular translations of all chants. Unless the school is a “Latin School” where latin is a mandatory part of curriculum, vernacular chants will be just fine.
▪ Pope Paul VI Jubilate Deo the “bare minimum” of latin chant that all Catholics should know.
▪ OCP published Laus Tibi Christi which is a beautifully type set collection of Latin chant, much of it from Jubilate deo, set in modern (round note) notation.
a) Breaking open the liturgical experience for schools
b) What prayer services should a school experience?
▪ Liturgy of the Word
▪ Morning Prayer
▪ Exposition/Eucharistic Processions
▪ Stations of the Cross
▪ May Crowning
▪ Lessons and Carols (Advent)
c) How do we respond to grief with students?
d) Prayer Services should not be a substitute for the Eucharistic Liturgy, but experiencing them should lead to greater participation and devotion to the Eucharistic Liturgy.
e) Prayer service should also be noted for their ability to broaden the way we think about fostering vocations and devotions at a young age.
Thanked by 1JBuckCC -
Pueri Cantores USA offers this list for school Masses (if you need to give your decisions some outside weight) https://www.pcchoirs.org/sites/default/files/Music_Listing_Resp_Psalm_1218.pdfThanked by 1JBuckCC
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It sounds like you've been doing a good job so far! It's hard to shift the culture and music in a school setting.
I was hired over the winter to supplement our school's music program and to take over programming for school Masses. Our music teacher is only a 0.5 position and she needs to teach the provincial curriculum, so there's not a lot of time for "other" things such as Mass prep. Our current music teacher also isn't a Catholic, which also hampers things a bit (she comes from a different Christian tradition). We're a rarity in that we're 100% government-funded, which is why the music teacher can't be more than a 0.5 at this time. My pay comes from a completely different pot of money separate from the government funding.
I started a liturgical choir that meets at lunchtime on the days the music teacher isn't here (so days 2, 4 & 6 on our 6-day school cycle). This is voluntary for kids in grades 3 and up (our school is K-8). The kids had mostly P&W music at their school Masses, with a small smattering of very modern Catholic hymns. I really wanted them to learn some Eucharistic hymns and part of my mandate from when I was hired was to teach them music more in line with that is sung on any given Sunday in our parish.
The way we're structured is that the last week of the month has our school Mass, more or less (sometimes we deviate from that pattern a bit to line up with feast days). The other weeks has what we refer to as class Mass, where they have a Mass in cohorts of 3ish classes. So every child goes to Mass twice a month during school hours.
What I started doing is picking music for a month. So all the class Masses had the same music, and then that music repeated again at the school Mass at the end of the month. I would then also add music from their previous rep that I deemed theologically acceptable to the school Mass, as we generally needed more music, such as extra hymns at Communion. That helped provide some continuity for them from what was previously done. Then, the following month, I would change out one or two hymns for something new, gradually building our rep.
By the end of the school year, we had a pretty solid core of 8 new hymns that they kids knew decently well. My lunch choir kids also learned all these songs in advance, and when it was their turn in the cohorts or when we had school Mass, they were invited to come lead the singing as a choir. So depending on the cohort, I would have 5-10 kids (depending on the cohort) who knew the songs well singing with me, and for school Mass usually 20-30 kids. Which is fantastic in a school of 230 kids. We also dovetailed some of that new rep into other school events - for example, we did a living rosary at the beginning of June (we didn't have it May due to scheduling problems). One of the songs we had introduced was Immaculate Mary, so we did a verse of it after every decade. Everyone in the school sang (at least the refrain) with gusto!
The choir kids also work on additional material. For example, for the living rosary, we did Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above at the end. I had a couple of reliable kids do solos for the verses, and the rest of the choir responded "Oh Maria!". And everyone learned the refrain. They kids had it down cold in a couple of practices. I also started introducing some Latin to them, so I started with the Taize Salvador Mundi, which we sang as a canon. They loved it. We worked on some Latin Ordinaries, and we sang the Simple English (ICEL) Ordinaries through Lent.
They also requested to learn a "big piece", so we did a unison version of Bread of Angels by Stephen Curtis. I was worried about the amount of Latin, but I created cheat sheets for them with the English interlined with the Latin text so they understood what they were singing. We worked one verse at a time, and after about 4 weeks of touching on it at lunch practices, we were able to sing it as the post-Communion reflection at the last 2 school Masses of the year. I was very proud of them. Plus, now they also know the Ceasar Franck version of Panis Angelicus! -
Psalms: Our parish doesn't usually sing/chant/say a lot of the Propers like the Introit or the Communion antiphon (Yes, we should. Yes, we are working on changing that.), so that just left the psalm usually. I looked online and didn't find anything that matched our lectionary (which is slightly different from the US version) and was easy enough for the churn of weekly Masses.
I know there's this whole huge thread somewhere in the forum about the rules USCCB has imposed about using the text and getting permissions etc. I'm in Canada, so I don't have the same sort of restrictions. I just got permission from our pastor, keeping it for in-house use.
Most Masses, I actually just took the psalm of the day and set it to simple music. I didn't deviate from the words AT ALL, except I think once I omitted the word "and" and another time I repeated the word Lord just to make it fit musically. I would restrict myself to 5 notes in either a key or mode, plus sometimes the lower dominant or leading note as required. The verses would usually be a repeating 2-bar psalm tone situation. This made them dead-easy for a soloist to learn (pretty much always one of my choir kids). I would practice with the kid a couple of days before the Mass, and often would email a recording home (to their parents) for them to practice. It was wildly successful. The kids loved the opportunities to sing a psalm (especially those who attend Sunday Mass regularly, so they witness it all the time), and it was a good exercise for me, both musically and theologically. I drew a lot of inspiration from existing psalm and chant tunes, and because a lot of them ended up being modal, I think it's helping train the ear for that type of music. -
Firstly - congratulations, you are doing great work. Groups of children deserve to experience music from as many genres as possible, so that as many as possible experience musical nourishment. (Some kids love trad-music. Some .. .don't!) Limiting them to kiddie-songs is the worse of all worlds imho.
And being sensitive to possible objections is a good sign: People who plough ahead without thinking about how things will be received can do a lot of damage. But there's low risk of you doing this, because of your awareness.
Don't try to go too fast.
Keep some (not many!) of the kiddie songs in the programme somewhere (maybe not in Mass!) Love 'em or hate 'em, they are part of the mix. But offer more/better as well.
Don9of11 recommendedSister Mary Editha, B.V.M.'s A Child's Book of Hymns.
It's a wonderful collection of traditional Catholic hymns selected specifically for children.
I wouldn't agree with that. It's got traditional style hymns for sure, but the words are still kiddie hymns, which won't nourish spirituality when the children are older. Many 21st century kids won't appreciate the mid 20th century (at best) language.
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I'm entering my sixth year of school Masses at my parish this year. (I'm DoM and schedule/accompany the music, and the music teacher, who is excellent, implements it.) Here are my personal guidelines, which have worked well for the school thus far:
* Same Mass setting as on the weekend. Same Alleluia, as well.
* Sing the psalm with a simple setting, if possible.
* Simpler hymnody, but no kiddie stuff. It should be stuff that is sung on the weekend as well. Sing it in four- or five-week blocks; don't change it every week.
* We always sing the Kyrie and the Our Father, too, so our non-reading littles can start to sing things.
* Don't be afraid to use the organ -- at my parish, the kids often have a personal goal to outsing it, and on hymns like "Hail, Holy Queen," they do!
God bless you! The school Mass is often the high point of my week. I hope it is for you as well! -
Don't be afraid to use the organ -- at my parish, the kids often have a personal goal to outsing it, and on hymns like "Hail, Holy Queen," they do!
Ha ha... love this! This is my goal for next year, to use the organ. We've outgrown our space by the grand piano! -
Mattspmusic0320, thank you for posting excerpts. Upon reflection, my school does a lot of the things listed (we're adding weekly Adoration this fall!), which helps me remember that we've got a good priest who is focused on the kids' spiritual growth. Praise God for Heaven-oriented priests!Thanked by 1Mattspmusic0320
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I tried when I first started 2 years ago, but it proved very difficult to manage behavior in the choir loft, haha.
For what it's worth, we rotate a class a week (down to 1st) in the "choir" spot, and the homeroom teacher is there. Our school choir is used mostly at weekend Masses. (That wasn't my call; it was the principal's, but much to my surprise, it does seem to help overall participation and singing.)
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