new choir members
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,565
    Has anyone tried to teach music reading online to their new choir members?

    I have three ppl who are showing interest. They are all fairly young (20 - 35) and super interested. They have NO choral experience. They do not read music.

    I am a bit worried about just letting them join in for a number of reasons, but ppl who have experience are not joining and the older people are "retiring". It is a lot of commitment.

    My church is a decent drive away, so teaching online would be the way to go. I figure there is no point to figuring it all out, if someone has already done so. I don't just want to point them in the direction of videos b/c I don't know that they would actually watch them, except for homework, which I would be fine with.

    Someone suggested a Saturday morning where I just teach about singing and reading?

    Thanks for any help you can offer.
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 560
    We have this situation a lot with new postulants and novices. I actually find that letting them learn by ear and memory for a bit helps before even introducing them to reading the music.

    After that we teach them how to sight read gregorian (I have some worksheets for this I can find somewhere to scan for you) and then slowly move to reading the music (in classical notation) first by teaching the time signatures and then notes and keys.

    It might seem kind of backwards to how most people learn, but I have found that it was the quickest and the most effective way. You dont need to spend more than 10 minutes after or before the ordinary session to do this.
    Thanked by 2probe canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,565
    It doesn't seem backward at all. Music is aural after all. The problem is that we sing SATB, and that's difficult if you are singing anything but soprano. We don't sing a lot of chant either, though our ordinary is in unison. Maybe that would be a good place to start.

    How do you find the blending. Are your newcomers good at listening and knowing when they are "sticking out"? This is also an issue I have. And of course, all the women want to be sopranos and they don't have actual proper singing skills so they don't know how to form proper vowels or blend. I have been told that my standards are high. I don't think so, I'm just aware that a poorly sounding choir can be distracting. It's so difficult to find music that will challenge the veterans, yet not be out of reach for the newcomers.
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  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 291
    I've taken a few voice lessons online. It's not ideal but it kind of works and it's better than nothing, especially when you want to work with someone specific.

    FWIW I have let inexperienced singers into my choir. To be exact, two of them to date. Both knew in general how to read music, but didn't know how to sing. I spend a bit of extra time with them after practice (less so now as the initial pitch-matching hump has been mostly overcome). I manage what they're involved in and tell them to sit certain things out, reassuring them that it's temporary. For me, if they are willing to attend practice regularly and follow my instructions, that's basically what it takes to join, and it has worked so far.
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  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 560
    For new comers, we usually encourage active listening during the actual Mass, and singing during the practices. That way they get experience but not where it matters if someone sticks out. We also practice a "buddy system" matching voices with those that have a similar ranger and timber and know how to blend so they can kind of teach them how to blend with the whole.

    I wouldnt be able to comment on the sopranos without knowing if they truly are sopranos and dont want to be alto because they cant hit low notes or if they are altos trying to be sopranos. If they are true sopranos who just dont have the right method, I would not give up right away-sometimes its just technique that needs to be learnt, if they are not sopranos you should explain that to them--and if they are not mature enough to accept that kind of correction they prob. shouldnt be in choir to begin with.

    To keep challenging the veterans, I would have smaller "scholas" that you could form within the choir for certain moments on feasts etc... something they learn and are capable of but not everyone needs to be apart of it.
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  • rvisser
    Posts: 90
    I am trying to work with my students (K-12) on blending because it is a weakness in my choir at the moment. It is difficult to get everyone singing the same vowel (sometimes they are just being silly and will sing something different). Today I had them show me (without sound) what an "ah" vowel looks like, or an "oh" vowel, and it's easy to see from their mouth shape if it will produce the sound I want. Then I had them sing the various vowels. Lastly, I had the whole class sing a particular vowel, and then I changed my vowel shape slightly and had them listen for the change in intonation. It is amazing how different vowels sung on the same pitch can make something sound out of tune! I will try this with my adults at rehearsal this week, too.

    For context, my parish choir of 30ish singers is about 75% students. I would not turn away young adults from choir if they are interested in learning (unless they are not able to match pitch after some individual lessons). If you are singing hymns, I would have them all sing the melody, and save your rehearsal time for SATB motets.

    Things I tend to focus on to get volunteers to sound good are eliding the text, precise cutoffs (whispering the consonant "s" in particular), and planned breaths. I use mostly public domain music, so writing in breath marks and Latin pronunciation (if applicable) saves so much time. Just make sure you explain your markings...I had a new singer ask what "NB" meant in a phrase, because of course she had never sung in a choir and didn't know it meant "no breath!"

    @monasteryliturgist - I also teach Gregorian notation before 5-line notation, and have found that it is so much simpler for students to understand. Even kindergartners can understand what a do-clef is, but making the leap to treble clef and key signatures and note names...there are just so many other steps!
    Thanked by 3probe canadash monasteryliturgist
  • probe
    Posts: 133
    @canadash, what kind of music? Chant or polyphony or classical or contemporary? What standards do you expect? Do they all watch your direction or are the heads in the books? A parish choir where no volunteer is turned away will more mixed than a trained schola. The offer of
    young (20 - 35) and super interested
    is immediately grababble if you or they have the time for Saturday sessions, which might be difficult for active young people. Would it be easier to offer them - or indeed existing members whom you think would benefit - a half hour before or after rehearsal? Do they have other members living near them who could give them a hand in a peer-led sectional rehearsal? I assume there are any number of youtube videos on learning to sing and read music but without a sub the ads make it impossible to bear them. There must be a $10 book on Amazon, or free downloads from this site, that you can use as a course book and work on reading in association with listening. In my own new unauditioned parish choir (a couple of members are in another choir and can cope better), I provide learning tracks and we rehearse starting together, starting on the right pitch, staying together - basic at this stage. Apologies if all this is below your level - for higher levels could you get them to participate in a summer school organised by a singing or church music association?
    Thanked by 3canadash rvisser CHGiffen
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,565
    Oh my goodness! What a great way to put the listening tracks together (I do have learning tracks, but not so organized). Thanks for the inspiration here.
    Thanked by 1probe
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 560
    @rvisser Definitely. We do the same with our new organists- I dont understand it but it works so well. They learn faster than any classically trained musician I have worked with. Its like the early Monks new what they were doing right!?
    Thanked by 2rvisser probe
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,050
    New, unfamiliar hymns can be a good way to get started on teaching singers some harmony. If they don't know the melody (and you don't give it to them immediately), learning the harmony part is so much easier. Can't revert to what you don't know!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 720
    I had a new singer ask what "NB" meant in a phrase, because of course she had never sung in a choir and didn't know it meant "no breath!"

    Except that’s not what that actually means. It means stagger breathe. I went years, literally years, thinking that “no breath” meant you couldn’t breathe from measure x to measure whatever. It would be like 10 or 15+ bars of “no breath”, so I would sing those entire sections on one breath. It wasn’t until I joined a new choir under a different director who says, “no breath, but stagger breathe throughout measure x to measure whatever” that I learned that I didn’t have to rely on my lungs of steel and could actually breathe.


    Thanked by 2probe PaxMelodious
  • rvisser
    Posts: 90
    @SponsaChristi - yes, of course. I tell my choir where not to breathe (NB) but always remind them to sneak breaths/stagger breathe elsewhere! I do not have lungs of steel, lol
  • probe
    Posts: 133
    We mark the place not to breathe with a slur. And if they all pick the same place to breathe, take control, pick the places to hide it, and assign those born Jan-June to breathe at A, the rest breathe at B.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,492
    We’re small enough for polyphonic music that I just ask on the third go-round if we wound up breathing in the same place where that person is breathing and mark in a beat to breath.

    Same with chant if I realize I breathed in a bad spot like at the note before the quilisma.
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