Do congregations prefer the contemporary slop?
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My parish, as with many parishes, struggled a bit with congregational singing. They often just leave it to the cantor or the choir. One of my coworkers who has been here for a couple decades just told me that it’s because the music has changed. She remembers when this parish had more of the sappy contemporary stuff that was familiar to people of a certain generation; but as it has gradually veered more traditional, thanks in large part to my predecessor (though certainly exacerbated by me), the people don’t sing anymore. Do you hear this story in your parishes? Does this ring true of your congregations? How do you approach something like this? I am hoping to offer a music-reading course one of these summers, since part of the complaint is that if it’s not familiar by ear, they won’t bother. But I partly expect that if I offer something like that hardly anybody will show up. Not sure what to do about it.
By and large, the parish has been very receptive to the direction that I’ve taken the music program here. I’ve received hardly any grief about it; occasionally people do wistfully long for what they’re familiar with, and usually that’s more contemporary stuff from OCP or wherever, but occasionally it’s a classic like Holy God, We Praise Thy Name, or Lift High the Cross, which they love. But I feel like I should be doing something more to encourage them to refamiliarize themselves with the huge reservoir of traditional hymnody.Thanked by 1Don9of11 -
It's a good question. When I get compliments about the music, it's almost always about a more contemporary piece (usually the music). When I get complaints, it's usually about a more contemporary piece (invariably the words). LOL
I find that a lot of contemporary music is musically simple. It's mostly I-IV-V progressions, with the odd ii thrown in. That makes it easy for the ear, I think, because that's what most of them will be accustomed to with popular music. I am not great at doing things by ear, but even I can pick out an upper harmony on the second or third pass on the refrain. It's also structured with a refrain a lot, which makes it easier to pick up and remember.
Older music tends to be more musically complex, such as more complex harmony, or it's modal, or it's from Bach or something like that (those "harmonized by Bach" hymns are the bane of my existence). It also tends to be more theologically dense. So it is harder to just "pick it up" vs. a song that resembles a pop or folk song.
The reality is that most people have virtually no music education, so unless it's musically spoon-fed to them they're not really interested. And we, as a whole, tend to be poorly catechized, so more theologically dense and appropriate text isn't a priority.
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IME, it varies.
One issue that looms huge in this discussion is generational turnover, and by that I don't principally refer to the supposed preferences of Silents-Boomers-early Xers versus late Xers-Millennials-Zoomers. Rather I principally refer to: the intersection of (a) education (and the lack thereof) x (b) technology.
(a) The ability to read music confidently and the ability to sing or play an instrument with at least a threshold level of skill appears to be far less widespread than it used to (the decline is multi-generational).
(b) The advent of mobile devices that could carry your entire music library, followed by streaming subscriptions, greatly intensified the cultural pattern that music is something heard passively.
Traditional musical idioms/forms that sound good and inviting to join without any need for accompaniment are, in my experience, the best threshold for making it possible for more people to sing. But that doesn't mean people will feel compelled to accept the invitation; it's merely a more plausible invitation.
As for vernacular texts, that can be mixed regardless of traditional vs contempo. For example, in the latter category, there's a fair representation of text choices that raise eyebrows and titters even among people who prefer the contempo idiom; that's a function of insufficient time to sift/winnow that chaff out (what we have kept in repertoire of the older idiom represents the fruit of a much longer sifting/winnowing process that we are largely unaware of). In the traditional category, I would not lead with choosing old texts that could readily come across more as twee than having gravitas.
In practical terms, a few other issues:
1. Pew Catholics (unlike Pew Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians and some others) typically avoid what I refer to as "singing naked" - that is, they are shy about hearing themselves sing, and more confident when there are confident singers not too far away from them in the pews. I am a huge believer in not sucking all or most confident singers out of the pews into the choir and in encouraging choristers who are not singing with the choir for divers reasons to seat themselves in the middle to front-of-back of the congregation. On the other hand, said Pew Catholics are much more prone to bow out of singing on all but best known hymns if the instrumental accompaniment (or ampified cantor) is too loud or overbearing; they don't take it as a challenge to match, but as a "why bother?" moment. (That is, shy Pew Catholics want to hear *voices* near them, not instruments overpower them.)
2. Acoustics: not all acoustics are equally suited to congregational singing, musical idioms, and instruments.
3. More subtly - Tempo: the "spaciousness" beloved in some Episcopalian musical traditions is rarely well received/executed among American Pew Catholics. The late great Theodore Marier evinced some well-founded knowledge about this by choosing traditional tune melodies whose verses lines could be sung through by congregations without breath-catch pause or a break in the energy of the line (think of arsis and thesis in chant melodies; Marier certainly did in this regard) so long as the tempo didn't invite sagging or breaks. Not all tunes are equal on this point, but it's worth diagnosing one's choices from this perspective. -
After having spent nearly 50 years as a choir member and now finding myself in the pews, I can say that only a few parishioners are singing — and I don’t think the reason is as simple as “the music got more traditional.”
I recently wrote a study, A PASTORAL LOOK AT THE HYMNS WE SING: Past & Present — The Parish Hymnody Study, along with its companion document What Is a Catholic Hymn?, after watching a parish slowly lose its shared musical voice over time. What struck me most in that process is that congregational singing is less about style and more about musical memory, stability, and trust.
In the parish I studied (my parish) , people once sang robustly — not because the music was “easy” or “contemporary,” but because it was consistent, doctrinally clear, and repeated year after year. The hymns became part of the parish’s lived prayer. When that stable repertoire disappeared (often unintentionally, through new hymnals and rotating selections), people didn’t stop singing in protest — they stopped because the music no longer belonged to them.
One thing I’ve learned sitting in the pews is this: most people won’t sing music they feel they’re only visiting. They sing what they feel they own. I’m also sympathetic to your instinct about offering a music‑reading course — but I suspect you’re right that attendance would be thin. In my experience, formation works best indirectly: by patiently rebuilding a core repertoire of truly Catholic hymnody, sung often enough that people recognize it not as “new” or “old,” but simply as ours.
The irony is that many of the hymns people now describe as “traditional” were once unfamiliar too. They became beloved because they were sung regularly, supported confidently, and chosen for the liturgy they served — not because they were immediately accessible by ear.
So yes, I hear this story often. But I’m no longer convinced the solution is moving backward stylistically or forward pedagogically. I think it’s pastoral patience: fewer hymns, chosen carefully, sung repeatedly, and allowed to take root. When that happens, congregational singing usually returns — quietly at first, and then all at once. -
When I took my last music position -stayed there 20 years - my predecessor had thrown in new music nearly every other week. The congregation rarely learned anything before it all changed again. Who says the so-called contemporary 70s stuff is easy to sing? It is not. I chose approximately 30 or so traditional hymns that would get us through the liturgical year and work within the limitations of the hymnal. They learned those hymns and sang them well. It just takes a little time and as the previous poster indicated, consistency.
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I appreciate the previous comment — it closely mirrors what I’ve observed as well, particularly regarding the role of consistency over time.
One factor I don’t hear discussed very often is the difference between how musicians and congregations experience repetition.
What can feel boring or excessive to those planning the music — for example, repeating hymns within a season or using more than one Marian hymn — is often exactly what allows the congregation to gain confidence. Parishioners rarely stop singing because they’ve heard something too often; more often, they never hear it often enough for it to become truly familiar.
Musicians are understandably trained to value variety and contrast. Congregations, however, learn to sing through stability. When a repertoire changes frequently, even good and worthy hymnody can remain silent simply because it never has time to take root.
In my experience, congregational singing grows most reliably not through novelty or instruction alone, but through patient repetition — a smaller body of strong hymnody, returned to often enough that it becomes shared prayer rather than something new to navigate each week. -
I served for 10 years in a parish for a Sunday evening (last gasp) mass. Because it wasn't in a particularly "good" part of town (there were visible bullet holes in the parish hall), the attendance varied widely according to the seasons. In the dead of winter, we were lucky if we had 30 people. But in the height of summer, sometimes this mass would have 75 or more people.
When I arrived, I took a very conservative approach to hymn selection. If we had to repeat 2 or 3 hymns every Sunday in Advent, or in Lent, I thought it was worth it, because the hymn singing continued to improve. I always soloed out the melody for the introduction, and the intros were not always short!
The pastor was very pleased with what I did. I would add about one "new" hymn every two or three months. I thought I was being adventurous when I scheduled "The Church's One Foundation," but was pleased that they sang it reasonably well. So I scheduled it for three more Sundays, and the confidence increased.
By the end of 10 years, I always had robust singing. It broke my heart that a change of pastors brought all of my hard work to and end. But, the few folks who knew me back then still great me fondly when I attend the parish festival.
I had to remind myself, this was a struggling parish, not a major parish. -
She remembers when this parish had more of the sappy contemporary stuff that was familiar to people of a certain generation; but as it has gradually veered more traditional, thanks in large part to my predecessor (though certainly exacerbated by me), the people don’t sing anymore. Do you hear this story in your parishes? Does this ring true of your congregations? How do you approach something like this? I am hoping to offer a music-reading course one of these summers, since part of the complaint is that if it’s not familiar by ear, they won’t bother. But I partly expect that if I offer something like that hardly anybody will show up. Not sure what to do about it.
Yes this rings true of many congregations. My two predecessors pushed traditional hymnody and chanted English propers on a congregation that is mostly boomers and up. I'm still mending fences and apologizing on behalf of the parish to people who were told they were less than entirely good Catholics for their musical tastes.
I've brought back some of the old songs and introduced some contemporary ones while keeping the most important hymns and chants. Congregational singing and choir participation is up significantly.
No one should play slop of any genre at Mass. There are many modern style songs of high artistic value to choose from.
Likewise, no one should be playing slop Gregorian chant at Mass, but that has absolutely been happening with the proliferation of half-baked English chant propers I currently see being marketed.
In my experience people want to sing at Mass. By and large people want to sing familiar songs. -
I’m struggling with introduction even one new hymn per week of the Easter season. This is all the more problematic without an organ. Some of the tunes are too chromatic even if we had an organ, and they don’t know the texts. There are also not many Paschal Time options; the St John of Damascene texts are explicitly for Easter so I feel a bit discouraged. And that’s looking at the two Episcopal hymnals of the last century, to Liam’s point about the winnowing process.1. Pew Catholics (unlike Pew Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians and some others) typically avoid what I refer to as "singing naked"
Yes and we have some problems. Our 8:30 NO Mass with hymns might as well not have any, and while the phenomenon described means that the organist and lone chorister have full freedom aside from the final Marian antiphon always sung, it’s a bummer that the people hardly sing even carols.
On the other hand I’m going to have to speak to someone in the congregation who sings flat and loudly and sings out of turn on Gregorian hymns that the cantor alone (me) intones at benediction; everyone else understands this. There are written instructions and frankly the possibility of flubbing it was made worse when I realized that I then had to sing over someone.
The late great Theodore Marier evinced some well-founded knowledge about this by choosing traditional tune melodies whose verses lines could be sung through by congregations without breath-catch pause or a break in the energy of the line (think of arsis and thesis in chant melodies; Marier certainly did in this regard) so long as the tempo didn't invite sagging or breaks.
We have never formally had this discussion but we always breathe in time when there’s a question of a breath in a hymn such as Lead kindly light (SANDON) where you need one but it might lead to a pause or sagging tempo if you don’t do it right.I think it’s pastoral patience: fewer hymns, chosen carefully, sung repeatedly, and allowed to take root. When that happens, congregational singing usually returns
My situation is different because we already have congregational singing. But we have a monthly (or seasonal) hymn: it might change for feasts or special occasions (and it is sometimes the same on feasts: we use the devotional months tied to feasts as a guide sometimes). But we use it multiple times a month. I now add a different hymn each week after Vespers to build our repertoire. For example we did Jerusalem the Golden to AURELIA (more reusable than EWING, and I love the tune) for Laetare.
I hope to go approximately every other week within a year. -
Also
What can feel boring or excessive to those planning the music — for example, repeating hymns within a season or using more than one Marian hymn — is often exactly what allows the congregation to gain confidence. Parishioners rarely stop singing because they’ve heard something too often; more often, they never hear it often enough for it to become truly familiar.
Musicians are understandably trained to value variety and contrast. Congregations, however, learn to sing through stability. When a repertoire changes frequently, even good and worthy hymnody can remain silent simply because it never has time to take root.
I agree but I also don’t, because hymns are secondary for me, as much as I like the congregation singing anything that we invite them to sing. The upshot is that they seem to sort of know the melody for v 1 and hearing parts for interior verses doesn’t kill them when we finish in unison.
As to too much variety that is a real risk and a problem right now as we don’t have the organ, but I know of parishes that do the same O Salutaris and Tantum concluding with Holy God five times a week or more. The singing is still not good (and it’s not acceptable quality-wise to me even before we consider the congregation’s enthusiasm). So I’ll take singing DUGUET and ST THOMAS “only” approximately thirty Thursdays versus almost 50. -
Oh, and while we are considering possibly unnecessary obstacles to singing-shy Pew Catholics: key/pitch and whether the shape of a melodic line invites or discourages participation by such singers. What works for singing-confident Pew Lutherans Et Al. does not readily swim the Tiber except for Christmas standards and the like.
Consult the voices of your very weakest mezzo and baritone* choristers in terms of what keys/pitches and melodies are most plausible to for Pew Catholics to sing in early through mid-morning vs midday through evening AND early in the Mass vs later in the Mass (Pew Catholics get NO warmups).
* Why them? Because they represent over a majority of typical voice distribution, while true soprano, contralto, tenor, and bass voices are significantly less typical in the pews even if they are more typical among music directors and organists (who, if they have perfect pitch, must be able to transpose according the singing needs of the pew singers - I vividly remember a TA in my second year of music theory (after a year in high school) deliberately transposing his sight-singing exercises by a tritone after taking first attendance of those in the classic who identified as having perfect pitch - Mr Giffen, did you ever have reason to encounter a different Chuck in the Music Department at Mr Jefferson's University? Being a hornist drilled to do all manner of transpositions on a dime, including the dreaded tritone - hey, Brahms' Second!, scored in B for horn but played on an F instrument - I could not help but love that).Thanked by 1CHGiffen -
I have taken down a hymn or two from the 1982 key.
We do the Willcocks Hark with the descant in G. I know why some would take it down to F, but it really does not sound right. I’d rather not do the descant in that case. -
CS Lewis had this riff in one of his books, maybe Screwtape, about a lady who complained about her toast not being what it once was. She wasn't taking into account how much younger and healthier she had been back then, and how much more involved in other things that made her happy and put less pressure on the toast.
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I don’t. I also ran into a few families from the Mass I attend at my Verdi’s Requiem performance with our Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus last weekend, so clearly there are families who are familiar with quality music.
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Musicians are understandably trained to value variety and contrast. Congregations, however, learn to sing through stability. When a repertoire changes frequently, even good and worthy hymnody can remain silent simply because it never has time to take root.
In my experience, congregational singing grows most reliably not through novelty or instruction alone, but through patient repetition — a smaller body of strong hymnody, returned to often enough that it becomes shared prayer rather than something new to navigate each week.1. Pew Catholics (unlike Pew Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians and some others) typically avoid what I refer to as "singing naked" - that is, they are shy about hearing themselves sing, and more confident when there are confident singers not too far away from them in the pews. I am a huge believer in not sucking all or most confident singers out of the pews into the choir and in encouraging choristers who are not singing with the choir for divers reasons to seat themselves in the middle to front-of-back of the congregation. On the other hand, said Pew Catholics are much more prone to bow out of singing on all but best known hymns if the instrumental accompaniment (or ampified cantor) is too loud or overbearing; they don't take it as a challenge to match, but as a "why bother?" moment. (That is, shy Pew Catholics want to hear *voices* near them, not instruments overpower them.)
I think these are really important observations. I know I sometimes fell into that novelty trap, but I've really come to learn to value of a stable hymnody.
I started a job a few months ago that has as part of my duties to support the music program at our school. The actual music teacher is only 0.5 and we share her with another school (and our enrollment has increased 20% over last year), so there's no time for additional things outside of the government-mandated curriculum, which we MUST meet to keep our government funding (I am not in the US, so our funding structure is very different).
We've only recently returned to having the kids coming in cohorts to what we refer to as "class Mass", with a different cohort each week for 3 weeks, and then "school Mass" on the fourth week (it was suspended during Covid and we are only now able to return to this format - School Masses continued to happen all along). I am responsible for these. Our kids have only been singing Praise & Worship type music at Mass for the past few years, because that's what was familiar and easy for our music teacher (who, while Christian, isn't a Catholic). Part of my job description was specifically to teach these kids from the Catholic hymnody.
So I've structured the Masses so all the Masses sing the same hymns all month, and then the subsequent month I might change 1 or 2, but keep 2 or 3 the same. Each student will have exposure to it at 2 Masses during the 4-week block (one class Mass and one school Mass).
I also started a lunch choir club and we sing those same songs then too, plus some additional material. Only a couple of months in, and the kids have gone from not knowing these songs at all to singing things like Holy Holy Holy with gusto. Having that choir club has really helped, because I'm seeing those kids several times a week and they are in the pews as confident singers. -
What regularly amazes me is how a parish I used to sub for has a congregation that would sing St. Louis Jesuits stuff a cappella when they lacked a musician, but the moment someone introduced a vernacular chant, which sounds better without a guitar and tambourine backtrack, oh... I won't go there.
@Adam Wood
Precisely. -
@Charles
What you’re noticing touches on something I’ve written about in a short paper called What Is a Catholic Hymn?—not so much questions of style, but questions of parish musical habit and continuity.
Every parish develops a musical vocabulary over time. When people can sing something a cappella—even repertoire that originally came with a particular instrumental sound—it usually means that music has become part of how they pray together. Introducing something new, even chant or chant‑like material that may be well suited to unaccompanied singing, can feel disruptive if it hasn’t yet had time to become their prayer.
One of the things I try to emphasize in that document is that musical change in parishes is rarely just about what sounds better in theory. It’s about how a community has learned to participate, and how carefully new music is introduced into that lived tradition.
So I hear your observation less as a critique of chant, and more as a reminder that congregational singing depends as much on pastoral patience and formation as it does on repertoire.Thanked by 1probe -
I would say that, yes, a lot of Catholic congregations, especially here in the States, prefer the contemporary slop. There seems to be sentimental value with that genre of music, and that’s why our NO funerals are often filled with what I call the “Boomer Hits.”
The thing that bothers me with the contemporary stuff is how syncopated a lot of it is. Just the other weekend when I had to cantor a Mass with “Be Not Afraid” in the lineup, I could’ve sworn people were singing the same thing 20 different ways.
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I would just caution adhering this this complaint like a piece of jumping cholla cactus to the Boomer generation, which is a lazy piece of rhetorical Velcro. Members of that generation were not in "charge" of much in the way of American Catholic parish life until the last decade and a half of the 20th century; the die was cast by earlier generations (in parish life, especially the Greatest and Silent generations; in the prelature, it at least goes back into the Lost generation).Thanked by 1novusgordo
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