OCP's version of All Glory, Laud, and Honor
  • tandrews
    Posts: 227
    I'm venting my frustration that OCP doesn't print All Glory, Laud, and Honor as a hymn with refrain and stanzas. I play "All Glory, Laud, and Honor... Hosannas ring" as a refrain, like many hymnals do. WHY?

    No one in the congregation has objected to singing it with a refrain, but it's a head-scratcher for sure. Probably for copyright $$$

  • Liam
    Posts: 5,576
    Is it that they simply don't indicate the refrain as such? (I don't have an OCP product to consult. Lucky me.) If it's merely that there's no indication to sing a refrain after the last verse, in my long experience, congregations will readily follow whatever the music ministers do (or don't do) in that regard. AGL&H is one of the easiest congregational hymns in terms of participation.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen oldhymns davido
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,286
    Just for the fun of it, here's my version, with descant.
    Giffen-All glory laud and honour-a.pdf
    91K
    Giffen-All glory laud and honour-a.mp3
    2M
    Thanked by 1oldhymns
  • tandrews
    Posts: 227
    There is a double bar line at the end of the stanzas, and nothing to really indicate that one should return to the refrain.

    But yes, I haven't had any complaints from people when I finish with the refrain.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 696
    I went on a rant about this on here. It absolutely drives me up the wall on Palm Sunday when it’s sung as written and ends on a verse rather than the refrain. Musically, it feels unresolved. It’s like when you’re you’re getting ready merge onto the freeway, but the car in front of you decides to stop and wait. It really grinds my gears. Last year our MD finally ended it on the refrain, but I’m not sure if that was a coincidence or intentional.

    OCP changed the punctuation and put periods at the end of the verses. The texts itself implies returning to the refrain.
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 365
    The earliest compilations of OCP used unreliable sources. Fred Bock, for crying outloud, and Crystal Cathedral, FEL (the earliest hymnal before Young Americans) and Peoples Hymnal, the predecessor of People's Mass Book, to name a few!!!
    Thanked by 1davido
  • davido
    Posts: 1,189
    Everyone understands that the tune ST THEODUPH (VALET WILL ICH DICH GEBEN) dos not properly have a refrain but ends on what you would call the end of the verses, correct?
    Using the first two lines of the music as a refrain and ending halfway through the tune is an invention of William Henry Monk, in Hymns Ancient and Modern I believe. I think it works, but in chorale settings of the tune by the old German masters, they set the tune straight through.
    There are some non-Anglican Protestant hymnals that don’t indicate a refrain for All Glory Laud and Honor.
    Thanked by 2tandrews irishtenor
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,083
    Maybe, but the text of which it is a surpassingly fine translation absolutely has a refrain, so it should have one too!
    Thanked by 2Liam CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,576
    Davido,

    While I am aware of that, but I am pretty sure mostly not everyone is aware of that. I think Monk's development of the tune was an inspiration that took widespread, albeit not universal, root because...it makes perfect sense for the kind of text and the occasion for its use. I would resist a temptation to stick to the older source material in that regard because I don't think it has particular merit, given that the history of the development of hymn tunes from their earliest sources is a very long one and the particular development here doesn't do violence to the tune and text in any musically or substantial meaningful way but, if anything, enhances them (and honors the text source material).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 208
    It wasn't until I was working (and later worshipping) in the Catholic context that I learned people sang it with a refrain.

    In my LCMS context, we always sang it straight through, no refrains whatsoever.

    No, musically, I will never go back! (Also, sing Gloria Laus et Honor in the EF helped me to understand the test properly...)
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,449
    What Liam said. In fact I can imagine two kinds of Ordinariate practices rooted in what they did as Anglicans: sing chant in English or in Latin. Or sing this, but in the way that I expect with a refrain and the verses belonging to the choir or subset thereof, even if you’re doing it without the door ceremony.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,189
    The best way to solve this problem is get rid of OCP.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
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