Need Help Understanding Novus Ordo Funerals
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Hello friendly musicians.

    I was just asked by a parishioner to cover for an absent cantor at her sister's funeral at a different parish on Friday.
    I accepted, and then realized I've never attended or sung at a Novus Ordo funeral, only several Reqiuem Masses since my conversion a couple years ago.

    Here are their hymn requests: Hymns : The only requests would be the Ave Maria(Schubert) How Great Thou Art, Panis Angelicus, and the one for final prayers of Farewell(May the choir of Angels...)

    Okay...I know the Latin Hymns, but when are they wanting me to sing each one?
    I will TRY to get in touch with the people but am not confident that I will be able to.

    Is the last one they're referring to the one by E. Sands? Or are there multiple songs they might be referring to?
    Is "How Great Thou Art" usually sung at Offertory or Communion?

    AND is there usually an Entrance Hymn at NO funerals? None of these are entrance hymns.
    Is the final one a recessional hymn or does the priest incense the casket and I sing it during that?

    I have reached out to the priest and am trying to get the contact information for the music director to find out about Ordinaries, Propers, and things like that but I guess I'm just looking for some basic information about "What a "Contemporary style" Novus Ordo is USUALLY like." I realize most people are familiar with this music and I am just not at all. I appreciate any insight.

  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 677
    Before anything, you need to pastor’s permission first before you can fill in. You need to get the person who asked you to fill in to get in contact with the pastor to get permission (especially since you don’t know what you’re doing) and to get into contact with you. Otherwise you’re just some random person.
    Thanked by 1StPatrick
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Who knew! Thanks. Like I said, I'm trying to contact the priest.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,240
    When you figure it out, let me know.
    Thanked by 2StPatrick CharlesW
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 792
    What a mess. Sounds about like 99% of the NO funerals I've ever played or attended. You have my sympathies.

    With the "May the Choirs of Angels"...you could just sing "In Paradisum" and ask for forgiveness instead of permission. It is technically what they're requesting...
    Thanked by 1StPatrick
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,426
    The music director at the church where the funeral is going to be held should be sending you a comprehensive lineup of music, sheet music for everything you need to sing, and setting up a time to rehearse with you. They should be guiding you on the timing of everything ("When does this happen?" "What's my cue for this?")
    Thanked by 5probe trentonjconn kevinf StPatrick ServiamScores
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    LOL thanks guys. I'm relieved to hear I'm not a dummy for not being able to figure out what's going on by myself. Agree especially with you irishtenor!! I am going to pass the gist of this along to the woman who asked me to sub and hopefully I will be able to get in contact with the guy I'm subbing for!! If not I will be at peace not knowing what's going on and do the best I can.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,551
    My surmise about the likely intended order of the requested items of music:

    How Great Thou Art - procession (processional hymns are very typical, though not entirely universal)
    Ave Maria - offertory
    Panis Angelicus - communion
    Thanked by 2StPatrick Abbysmum
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,243
    I attended a Novus rite funeral this week. It was a Mass.

    I prayed for the soul of the deceased and I’m sure some other people did too.

    The homily described the recent entry of the deceased into Heaven, his welcome home by St Peter no less, and then by all his deceased friends and relatives. Also how “like all the great saints” the deceased was flawed; but now he's in the presence of God. A homily, no doubt, obedient to pastoral needs. And no doubt the first reading, obediently chosen from the lectionary, was taken from Wisdom 3, “The souls of the righteous...”.

    The cantor warmly sang the Alleluia before the Gospel, in obedience, I expect, to pastoral needs, if not quite to the rubrics of the season. And she humbly sang Alleluia again during the Communion procession, to a chant composed by the late Leonard Cohen.

    Surrly in obedience to pastoral needs (since there were many there who perhaps are not quite used to kneeling) the celebrant instructed us to “sit or kneel, as you wish” at certain points in the ritual, such as the Eucharistic Prayer.

    As Cardinal Sarah has recently reminded the Church: it’s so important to be obedient! As the late Pope told the Church: this rite is the sole law of faith for Catholics today!
    Thanked by 7tomjaw CHGiffen Chant_Supremacist irishtenor StPatrick Roborgelmeister trentonjconn
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,254
    Because for most NO funerals, it is a "celebration of life." To hell with the rubrics and anything else that might besmirch a familys' choices.

    In my place, we sing the propers. Families do not get any choices except they may have the Ave MAria sung after communion or not. Nothing else.

    Thanked by 6irishtenor StPatrick ServiamScores Abbysmum tomjaw Gaudium
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Thank you, Liam. The woman I'm in contact with did confirm she wants Panis Angelicus at Communion and Ave Maria "wherever you think it fits in the Mass"
    Thanked by 2Liam tomjaw
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Andrew, thank you for providing a "worst case scenario" for me to expect so that when it's not THAT bad I can be relieved instead of scandalized.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 99
    I agree with Liam about the order of music. Sounds like a normal N.O. funeral.

    But I'm not fully understanding why the parish funeral coordinator or music director did not contact you? Usually the family of the deceased would make their requests known to either of the above-mentioned people, who would then contact you.

    The "May the Choirs of Angels" song would be sung at the Final Commendation (the subvenite), as the Song of Farewell. Sometimes In Paradisum is sung at this point, and sometimes In Paradisum is sung as the recessional. Sometimes the priest prefers to recite the prayers of the Final Commendation.

    The organist should be able to tell you all you need to know about the usual customs at that parish. You should set up a rehearsal with that person.

    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 99
    Irishtenor is absolutely right, I heartily agree with everything he said!
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 479
    The music director at the church where the funeral is going to be held should be sending you a comprehensive lineup of music, sheet music for everything you need to sing, and setting up a time to rehearse with you. They should be guiding you on the timing of everything ("When does this happen?" "What's my cue for this?")


    That's assuming there is a music director there, and that funerals are within their area of responsibility and/or volunteer-effort. There may not be.

    IMHO it's urgent to talk to the priest to find out the lie of the land.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 99
    This might help you with the order of the Mass and important prayers the priest will say: (Although at a NO funeral, not everything goes according to what is prescribed.)

    https://www.canticanova.com/planning/other/pln_fun1_l.htm
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Unfortunately there is no organist and I am the pianist as well as the cantor.
    Next time I will make sure not to accept the gig so quickly and make sure I get in contact with parish staff before I do so.
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    Ah that link really helps! Thank you!
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,426
    Oh goodness, this is quite the situation you've found yourself in! When is the funeral? I can probably give you cues and instructions for everything if you need them and want me to. Send me a DM if you're interested.
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 155
    I do lots of NO funerals. The "choir of angels" is indeed for Commendation, and it might be referring to "May Song of the Angels" by Bob Dufford. The first verse is explicitly listed in the Catholic Book of Worship III (#10C) for this purpose.

    I have used that, but also In Paradisum. You generally start singing the selection when the priest starts incensing the remains.
  • tandrews
    Posts: 223
    Sometimes priests want to announce some of the hymns themselves (opening, song of farewell, dismissal), so maybe the priest would be willing to do that if you express your uncertainty of when to begin playing?
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    If anyone is curious, this service went surprisingly smoothly.

    It was held at a contemporary parish but the only practicing Catholics there were members of the traditional parish I often sing at. The Pastor told me to sing the Ordinaries in Latin, since it's Lent. I brought Fr. Weber's book so I sang the Proper antiphon for a Mass for the Dead (I mean All Soul's Day) as the Processional.

    The woman who invited me confirmed that she definitely wanted Ave Maria at Offertory and Panis Angelicus at Communion. She said she didn't want there to be an opening song so I don't need to do How Great Thou Art.

    The Pastor in his homily asked us to pray for the dead and said the traditional prayers for the dead at the end of this homily.

    I sang Fr. Weber's "Let perpetual light shine upon them" at Communion and then Panis Angelicus.

    I sang the "May the Choirs of Angels Song" during the incensing of the coffin and then In Paradisum as a recessional.

    Like I said of the apparently practicing Catholics who were there I recognized all of them from a parish I regularly sing at which made me feel very comfortable singing the chants and they sung the Latin Ordinaries along with me.

    After the service, I received an email from the music director saying that he is not in charge of funerals, and there is no funeral director either. so. We did it!
    Thanked by 6Liam Chant_Supremacist trentonjconn CHGiffen tomjaw Abbysmum
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 792
    Sounds like it went much better than it otherwise could have; well done.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,426
    Sounds like you did a great job under difficult circumstances! Way to go!
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,243
    Good outcome: well done.
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 349
    She said she didn't want there to be an opening song so I don't need to do How Great Thou Art

    God is merciful and just!
    What I did in a situation very much like the one you encountered (no parochial funeral coordinator / music director not in charge of funerals (!): I whipped up a very short funeral planner for the priests and the music director. Called back to same parish a few years later, I was handed a copy of what I had produced! "This is the way we've always done it." All I could say is, "This looks very good!"
    Thanked by 7tomjaw CHGiffen mmeladirectress WGS Andrew_Malton Elmar Abbysmum
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 677
    She said she didn't want there to be an opening song

    That’s not what the Church says. The “opening song” is in place of the Introit/Entrance Chant proper, which is the same chant as the Requiem Mass. It’s part of the Mass rubrics for the Introductory Rites. It’s not really optional.

    I'm just looking for some basic information about "What a "Contemporary style" Novus Ordo is USUALLY like.

    When in doubt, follow the rubrics. The GIRM is your friend. FWIW, there is no “contemporary style Novus Ordo.” There’s just the Mass according to the 2011 Roman Missal and the Church’s documents on what is considered appropriate music for Mass.

    If you’re in the US, here is the GIRM put out by the USCCB:
    https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal

    If you’re in Canada, here is the GIRM put out by the CCCB:
    https://www.cccb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/GIRM.pdf


  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,663
    @Sponsa if you read GIRM48 to the end you will find that no 'song' is required, an 'introductory explanation' is sufficient.
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    What I did in a situation very much like the one you encountered (no parochial funeral coordinator / music director not in charge of funerals (!): I whipped up a very short funeral planner for the priests and the music director. Called back to same parish a few years later, I was handed a copy of what I had produced! "This is the way we've always done it." All I could say is, "This looks very good!"


    That is awesome!
  • StPatrick
    Posts: 22
    All glory to God who is wonderful in all His works!
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