Dealing with a deacon who starts the Kyrie in a really low key
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 345
    Our one deacon always starts off the Kyrie in such a low key due to his very deep voice, and he also isn’t entirely on pitch. He’s not horribly off pitch, but it definitely doesn’t sound quite right.

    Anyway, what I noticed some cantors doing is they will try to sing a key or so higher in the response, and it ends up sounding really bad. Whenever I’m the cantor, I just keep his key even though it’s really low and uncomfortable for me because changing keys from his lead to our response sounds terrible to my ears.

    What’s the solution? Apparently, our MD has tried to give him a starting pitch/key, but he said he can’t really follow that. He also wants to do the Kyrie and doesn’t want to leave it to the cantor, which I can understand. I believe he also insists on chanting it during Advent and Lent.

    So- what’s best practice? Match his key, bring it up a higher key in response, or something else?
  • francis
    Posts: 11,283
    The organ is allowed to support voices during lent. Have the organist hold a triad before the intonation begins and he can sing over it. Keep holding the triad all the way over until the congregation begins singing. Just an idea.
    Thanked by 3probe DavidOLGC tomjaw
  • francis
    Posts: 11,283
    Which Kyrie are you singing?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,552
    Don't just give the starting pitch, but the incipit phrase. That falls under supporting voices.
    Thanked by 4probe DavidOLGC tomjaw Abbysmum
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,392
    Well, experiment. Sometimes my pastor needs an incipit. Sometimes he needs the first note. That applies to me too. Our organ is out so I only have my pitch pipe and have to give myself the incipit by humming…

    But the Kyrie belongs to the deacon? No, this has never been a hard and fast rule, and he can’t sing in tune. That’s bad! This means that the women cannot sing. I carefully choose the keys to keep the dominant of the mode as A or otherwise whatever is most comfy for hymns. (I start Tantum VI from Cantus Selecti on B flat, but it works somehow), and the propers and ordinary also change as needed.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • francis
    Posts: 11,283
    If he cant match pitch, giving a melody or a note is probably not going to work.
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 345
    Francis,

    He chants the Kyrie from the start of the Litany of Saints (not sure if there’s a name for it). It’s also the one that Proulx uses as the Kyrie for A Community Mass.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,048
    The MD should do more than give him a starting pitch. He should take the time to work with the deacon to develop a slightly higher range for the Kyrie. A whole step up should be doable.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 397
    But the Kyrie belongs to the deacon?


    No, it doesn't. I'm with Matthew here. People have a tendency to make up rules where no rule exists.

    I've noticed the trend of having the deacon lead the Kyrie in recent years, but nothing in the Missal or GIRM suggests that the deacon is the preferred minister for this. My theory is that after decades of a pretty steady diet of the third form of the penitential act--which deacons tended to lead when present at Mass--the first form with the Confiteor has made something of a come back, but in people's minds the deacon has become associated with the Kyrie, so the deacon still does that part.

    If the Kyrie is sung, who leads it should be entirely determined by who can sing it best. That is rarely me (though I happily chant other bits, and will even chant the third form of the penitential act), so I always let the cantor do it if a cantor is present. If the deacon is actually impeding the people's participation, I'd find the nicest way possible of telling him to get over himself. We deacons have plenty of other things to do at Mass.

    I also let priests move their own dang chalice palls.
    Thanked by 7irishtenor Roborgelmeister Liam CHGiffen tomjaw francis Abbysmum
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 345
    fcb, “getting over himself” is definitely part of the problem. He doesn’t take criticism well, from what I’ve been told, which is why no one is trying to fix this issue.
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 397
    @ CatholicZ09, I guess you have to pick your battles.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,229
    You could always give pitches with the intention of accompanying him, and if it crashes and burns a few times because he won’t sing in key, that will reflect on him more than you.
    Thanked by 3irishtenor trentonjconn Abbysmum
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,392
    I also let priests move their own dang chalice palls.


    I get the impulse, but on the other hand, the deacon is free for this, and to me it’s part of the point of having a deacon. And there are all sorts of examples where deacons (or a priest vested as one) is the proper minister but where the bishop in particular wants to do it himself and mucks it up for everyone around him. So what’s one more thing?
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 397
    So what’s one more thing?
    I will of course do it if a priest asks me to (and the Archbisop expects you to). But part of the problem is that the GIRM gives not instructions on how (or by whom) the pall is to be moved, and different priest do it differently. Most uncover before the first epiclesis and cover after the elevation of the chalice. But some do it old style and uncover right before the consecration of the chalice. Still others do it after the epiclesis and before the beginning of the institution narrative. So unless otherwise instructed, I'm happy to let them pilot their own plane.
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
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