Wasting away in Novus Ordo land
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Feeling totally dejected after playing/singing for "Ash Tuesday" this evening. Yes. Just kind of fed up with priests who don't follow rules and laypeople who don't even know there are such things as rules.

    "Wasted Away Again in Margaritaville" keeps running through my poor brain - any suggestions for new lyrics about Novus Ordo land?

    Sigh.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,224
    Ash Tuesday?

    Good grief. I’m so sorry. Next year, politely decline to be there.

    I wish I had words of comfort… this is why I say that priests make or break music jobs. It’s crap like this that also leads good people to run for the hills and get civilian jobs. Little wonder.

    You’re NOT crazy for having the feels. Offer up your anguish for the conversion of your priest and all the goobers who thought it a good idea to attend tonight.

    (Side note: I garnered a chuckle at our staff meeting when I referred to Ash Wednesday as everyone’s favorite ‘(un)holy day of obligation’.)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,154
    and it's a day of non-obligation!

    I've never heard of "Ash Tuesday": does this mean the priest was celebrating the Mass of Ash Wednesday early and asking people to pretend that Lent had started already? Or was he trying to make a special occasion out of Mardi Gras Tuesday?

    (Scratching my head.)

    Anyway, sympathies.
    Thanked by 2Liam CharlesW
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Serviam, very kind, thank you very much. By the way I love your YouTube channel.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Chonak, yes, he said we were celebrating the VIGIL of Ash Wednesday. So I think we should have fasted on Tuesday since the fast is spiritually connected with the reception of ashes. He actually didn't mention fasting.

    Sigh. I'm fasting on Wednesday.

  • This is actually a serious abuse and something the Chancery should be made aware of. It sows confusion among the faithful and violates Canon law. Priests aren’t free to change the liturgical calendar.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,935
    Time to shake the dust from your shoes...
    Thanked by 3davido CharlesW francis
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Sponsa,
    I would consider reporting this but I do not know where to find the norm. I have seen a previous thread on this forum but I don't think it mentioned Canon Law or GIRM statute.

    Another question: are there written norms for the decoration of the church throughout the liturgical year? I know the USCCB put out something years ago...

    Tomjaw, yes, I am considering it. But I don't want to leave the parishioners there to break the rules again by using recorded music, which was the situation before I arrived.

    It's so odd how priests and laypeople think the rules can be broken if there is a "need." Like a "need" for instrumental accompaniment or a "need" for Ash Wednesday Mass in the home parish instead of driving 30 minutes.

    "Need" is a very weak excuse and is mostly based on people's laziness. Why would priests encourage laziness???
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,542
    Perhaps ... someone ... imagined ... *creating* an opportunity for an additional big collection is a "need"? On the other hand, I would be surprised if a Tuesday evening liturgy were on that many people's minds to begin with.

    What about Christmas Mass on Festivus? Help deal with the Christmas Eve crowds and allow people to get it out of the way, pastorally speaking. /s
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,224
    Another question: are there written norms for the decoration of the church throughout the liturgical year?
    Yes, not least of all, the prescriptions in the GIRM itself. For instance, the altar cannot be decorated with flowers during Lent, apart from Lætare Sunday. Liturgical colors are prescribed (so altar frontals, tabernacle veils, and other fabrics should match the color of the priests chasubles).
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Liam, precisely what I was thinking! LOL.

    But actually our problem is that we have no assigned priest. We are a tiny mission parish, "sharing" two priests from two different parishes each an hour away.

    Both of those priests had other Ash Wednesday obligations today. Hence the Ash Tuesday invention. However, I'm pretty sure one of the priests only has two Masses today. So.... He probably could have been available today for us. It just takes a little planning.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,224
    Honestly, this does shift my judgment *a little*. He was trying to offer the service when he could. Now, considering that it is a non-obligation, and it was *objectively* not yet Lent, it was a poor decision. If anything, do it the next day, or simply don't do it at all.

    Ash Wednesday and the blessing of Candles in honor of Saint Blaise are two devotionals that people are just weirdly obsessed with. I've never understood it. More people come on AW than they do on bona fide HDO's. It's bizarre. So your priest probably was aware of this and felt pressure to do something if he felt he couldn't be there today.

    Another thing that grinds my gears (tangentially related to this issue) are the times when feasts have genuine vigils, but the anticipated mass doesn't use them. Nope! We are using Sunday's readings for Pentecost on Saturday, even though Saturday has its own readings and propers. Makes no sense to me.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Serviam,

    Thank you. I believe the GIRM also says that during the penitential seasons the decorations must be very subdued and not be confused with the subsrquent joyous season.

    I ask because there is a quite large Lenten "scene" currently in front of the altar. I've seen this before in Hispanic parishes and it can be very beautiful but I doubt it's allowed. Our two priests are Hispanic so it doesn't bother them - maybe they want it even bigger - but I think it's not appropriate to take the focus away from the altar.

    You are right, he felt he had to do "something." But that something should have been arranging his other Masses so they all fall on the correct day.

    I know what you mean about the correct readings for vigils and even non-vigils. I have sometimes programmed vigil propers for a vigil, and when I get to church before Mass the priest says he wants to go with the readings for the next day.

  • Liam
    Posts: 5,542
    We are a tiny mission parish, "sharing" two priests from two different parishes each an hour away.

    Both of those priests had other Ash Wednesday obligations today. Hence the Ash Tuesday invention. However, I'm pretty sure one of the priests only has two Masses today. So.... He probably could have been available today for us. It just takes a little planning.


    That's an important piece of context. It doesn't make it licit, but it's much more likely that if a bishop were told of this, the bishop might not look with a kindly countenance upon whoever told him of it with an expectation of the priest being disciplined.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Liam,

    I understand and agree. The only reason I would consider reporting it is because this is the second year in a row it has happened this way and I think it might be the standard from now on. I support and pray for our priests but this is just one of the many oddities they permit and promote. Most likely I'll try to talk to both priests instead of report it but I don't know where to find the norm. Ideas?
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 469
    The modern provision allowing anticipated Masses is linked to the obligation of assisting at Mass on Sundays and holy days. Ash Wednesday isn't a feast or solemnity, let alone a holy day of obligation, it doesn't have first vespers, and it would be an abuse for the priest to offer multiple Masses on Tuesday unless there's a pastoral necessity for doing so and no other priest available (which sounds like it may be the case here).

    At least in the old rite, there is a provision for distribution of ashes on the first Sunday of Lent for those who were unable to receive them on Ash Wednesday (S.R.C. 4373, 4387), which seems preferable to anticipating the blessing and distribution the night before Lent begins.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,366
    Yeah, although precisely because it's a ferial day and not a holy day of obligation, I would abolish the delayed distribution of ashes on Sunday.

    Ash Wednesday and the blessing of Candles in honor of Saint Blaise are two devotionals that people are just weirdly obsessed with. I've never understood it. More people come on AW than they do on bona fide HDO's. It's bizarre. So your priest probably was aware of this and felt pressure to do something if he felt he couldn't be there today.


    We like sacramentals. It's not that complicated. What is complicated is being a cleric without sufficient brainpower to realize that you don't need to be told "don't do this" and yet here we are.

    Anyway I now have yet another reason to agitate against evening Masses, never mind anticipated Masses, or Masses that count, regardless of the text used, when said in the evening before a holy day of obligation (and therefore all Saturdays with respect to Sunday).
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Liam, yes the Jimmy Aiken helps. I'm still looking for any type of canon or norm, to no success.

    FSSP, this is very interesting about ashes on 1st Lent. It's very pastoral. Thank you for the explanations. I understand why there is no anticipatory Mass for Ash Wednesday, I just can't find documentation anywhere.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Matthew,

    "What is complicated is being a cleric without sufficient brainpower to realize that you don't need to be told "don't do this" and yet here we are."

    LOLLLLL
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 393
    This might not be a satisfactory solution, but the Book of Blessings has a rite for the distribution of ashes that a lay person can lead. The priest could bless the ashes ahead of time and then your could observe Ash Wednesday on the actual day.
  • I’ve never cited the norms when reporting liturgical abuses less blatantly obvious as this to the chancery and still got results. Usually it’s a case of priests not knowing and just needing to be educated on the matter. Also, traditionalists priests are immune from needing this. I’ve had to consult with the diocesan chancellor on a serious matter when a traditionalist priest overstepped his canonical authority that was only granted to pastors.

    The Liturgical Calendar is governed by the Universal Norms on the Liturgical Year and the General Roman Calendar , which had its last major update in 2002. After that, each Conference of Bishops publishes its own liturgical calendar each year based on the universal liturgical norms and their region. Ash Wednesday isn’t a moveable feast day.

    We are a tiny mission parish, "sharing" two priests from two different parishes each an hour away.

    Both of those priests had other Ash Wednesday obligations today. Hence the Ash Tuesday invention. However, I'm pretty sure one of the priests only has two Masses today. So.... He probably could have been available today for us. It just takes a little planning.
    There is an alternative offered in the Book of Blessings.

    The Book of Blessings has a rite for the blessing and distribution of ashes outside of Mass.
    Nos. 1059-1062 of this book has the following indications:

    "1059. The season of Lent begins with the ancient practice of marking the baptized with ashes as a public and communal sign of penance. The blessing and distribution of ashes on Ash Wednesday normally takes place during the celebration of Mass. However, when circumstances require, the blessing and distribution of ashes may take place apart from Mass, during a celebration of the word of God.


    The priest would have to bless the Ashes, but a designated lay minister can bring previously blessed ashes to the place and direct a slightly varied version of the rite of distribution of ashes. The variations for a lay minister are already foreseen in the ritual of Blessings.

    This was fairly standard practice in Catholic schools when I was still a child. We never went to Mass on Ash Wednesday. I didn’t even know there was Mass on Ash Wednesday until I moved away for college.

    It’s not ideal, but we can expect this to become more common as priests retire and/or die. They even have something like this for funerals when there’s no priest available, which I find completely sad and depressing. Pray for more holy priestly vocations.

    Another thing that grinds my gears (tangentially related to this issue) are the times when feasts have genuine vigils, but the anticipated mass doesn't use them. Nope! We are using Sunday's readings for Pentecost on Saturday, even though Saturday has its own readings and propers. Makes no sense to me.

    I had no idea that the vigil of Pentecost still existed until our new pastor introduced it at our parish in exchange for Pentecost Sunday. I appreciated that our MD would sacrifice his Saturday evening to add to the solemnity with singing all the extra psalms and actually having an organist.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Sponsa,

    Excellent, thank you!

    fcb & Sponsa, an interesting idea from the Book of Blessings. Maybe it's worth mentioning to the priests.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,660
    a "need" for Ash Wednesday Mass in the home parish instead of driving 30 minutes.
    17% of households in this town own no motor vehicle. As I cannot drive (and live alone) I bought a house only five minutes walk from the church (and shops).
  • tandrews
    Posts: 222
    Quadra-plus-one-gesima.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    af,
    Sounds wonderful; like the town I grew up in, with several parishes within walking distance. Here, everyone drives, most between 10 and 15 minutes, to get to our parish.

    tandrews LOLLL. Exactly.
    Thanked by 1chrispcmitchell
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,154
    I'm not sure that you need to cite rubrics if the person you contact is knowledgeable. If the diocese has an "Office for Worship", the head of that will know that offering Ash Wednesday Mass a day early isn't proper.

    Then it's enough to describe what happened, say that it seemed strange, and ask what's the best way to handle such a situation: have a lay-run service? offer the Ash Wednesday Mass starting at midnight early Wednesday? or offer it on Thursday?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,366
    It really should not be done on Thursday. The sort of permission that Patrick describes was conceded in later modernity but should not be taken as good or normative; in fact, I basically think of it as one of the things that the French church has done very badly wrong even when dealt a very bad hand: allowing the distribution of ashes on Sunday is much like the required external solemnity of certain feasts and the practice there of blessing candles and celebrating the external solemnity of Candlemas even on gesimas.

    I wouldn’t want to deprive people of Mass in the way that leaves people consistently isolated from the practice of the faith (and from other people) but choices have to be made.

    And missions are complicated especially if it isn’t a HDO. Priests can binate but not trinate today.

    So in this case it’s also fair to tell the parish that there is one Mass here and two in the other parish, but one will also be at the mission. Or something like that.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,542
    And missions are complicated especially if it isn’t a HDO. Priests can binate but not trinate today.


    An important technical point that is pertinent when priests - and/or the congregants - expect Mass. A simple distribution of ashes and a liturgy of hours would not implicate those limitations.
    Thanked by 1davido
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,233
    Quadra-plus-one-gesima.

    Shouldn't it be after Wednesday though, to make up for the 3 extra days before Ascension?
    Thanked by 2tandrews chonak
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,154
    Now that we know more about the situation, I hope you'll stay, TLMlover, since you're making a difference for -- at least dozens of people there. And the priests who offer the Mass are being pretty generous when they make the round trip every Sunday or holy day: it's probably three hours or so added to their duties at their home parishes.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    Thank you all for the very helpful information: Matthew, chonak, Liam, Jeffrey, Serviam, fcb, af, Sponsa, FSSP, et al. I truly appreciate it!

    I especially appreciate the words of encouragement. And yes, chonak, you are absolutely right, it is wonderful to have any priest at all, considering that in the past they tell me attendance was down to about five people per Sunday. Now we have at least 30 regulars and ten part-timers.

    I think if I had never discovered Tradition and the TLM I wouldn't be as upset with the abuses or general lack of knowledge from our priests (and parishioners.) I guess it's like being an ex-smoker (hello): we are the ones most strongly offended by smoke.

    It's all very disheartening but I always pray for the conversion of our priests, like Serviam said. And maybe that's the reason God has me there, I don't know.

    I had a good Baptist friend (may she rest in peace) whose husband was the pastor of their church. She was very involved on Sundays and she said to me once that although she was there every Sunday and involved, she felt like she wasn't being "fed."

    I definitely feel the same, and I think all litugical musicians do at some point - after 25 years of not sitting in the pew. I think I just need to go to Latin Mass on a regular basis, an hour and a half away; I'd have to rush out the door after playing/singing here and be on the road. But I think it would be worth it; I need to be fed. I especially need to hear that incredible schola; my goodness! I just sat in the pew and silently wept the first time I heard them.

    Thank you all so much for indulging me! Have a peaceful and fruitful Lent.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,269
    I feel your pain. I have watched this whole thread go by without saying anything because … what else can I possibly say? Today I offer a rosary for you.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,154
    It might be helpful to attend a TLM on a weekday, even, if you can reach one with some driving.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    chonak,

    Excellent idea. Thank you!
  • I would echo the encouragement to complain to the chancery, perhaps especially lacking all the documentation, supply of which might make the complaint seem more persnickety than the cri de coeur of your actual experience.

    It seems to me that faithful and orthodox Catholics do not complain in good faith quite enough since we are more inclined to bear with things for the sake of the Church. That is, of course, the right sentiment, but it means that the noise of the faithful coming to the chancery and to which the chancery responds is often mostly the din of people who do not love the Church and Her sacred liturgy or perhaps even the good of souls.

    Faithful Catholics should take up as a sort of duty asking in earnest for good things and for freedom from bad things. Sometimes such requests are not met with good will, but we ought ask, being willing to bear the burden of bad responses instead of merely the burden of the abuse itself.

    I think of a time I went to confession and the priest monkeyed with the formula for absolution. I complained about it to the chancery thinking about all the invalid confessions flowing from that place. It's a matter of the good of souls over which we are right to feel aggrieved.

    Chin up, and I am glad for you to find here a source of good cheer in spite of the vicissitudes of this life.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,542
    "I think of a time I went to confession and the priest monkeyed with the formula for absolution. I complained about it to the chancery thinking about all the invalid confessions flowing from that place. It's a matter of the good of souls over which we are right to feel aggrieved."

    Another approach to that problem (a "forgive" vs "absolve" problem, to be particular here) I took was to raise it with the confessor right there. He hadn't realized what he was doing raised an issue. He used the proper formula, and then the time *after* that, thanked me and moreover expressly confirmed that I was correct to have done what I had done. (I am behind the grill, but he could recognize my voice.)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 96
    francis, thank you so much! I kind of gasped when I read that you offered a Rosary for me; what a kind thing to do! Forever grateful...

    Jenny and Liam, good points, both.

    I guess I'm a bit worried that with all the modernism in the Church and the many non-caring bishops, it could be that nothing would come of me reporting the Ash Tuesday Mass. And then I'd feel worse. For now I think I will pray and do penance for the priests and after Easter I will revisit the issue.

    Thanks to all.

    Thanked by 1francis