Psalm Tone Cadences - Syllable Rules
  • Gregorian
    Posts: 9
    A colleague and myself are working to compile a volume of genuinely Gregorian Psalm toned verses to accompany the Novus Ordo Proper Antiphons in English. We are also including Gregorian Psalm toned Responsorial Psalm Antiphons and their verses to try and plug another apparent gap in the literature. I am trying to find rules for determining where each cadence of the Psalm tone should land relative to the syllables in the text.

    Unfortunately I have not been able to find a music resource for the Novus Ordo that uses the genuine Gregorian Psalm tones, but with English text. Fr. Weber's Propers do make an effort to implement this for Introits/"Entrance Antiphons" and Communions, which proves that it can be done. Unfortunately, his edition has nowhere near as many verses of the Psalms as other resources, for example the Simple English Propers (but these resources in turn have other issues, such as not using the original Psalm tones).

    I would like to understand the rules for setting Latin text to a Gregorian Psalm tone. In particular I am trying to understand where the cadences of the Psalm tones are supposed to land relative to syllables in the text, when trying to fit the tones to a text. (e.g. how many syllables from the end does the terminatio begin, and which syllables do each neume land on?)

    I have been using the Psalm toned Doxologies that you can find in the front of the Liber Usualis as a starting point for this and they have given satisfactory results so far, but I have a suspicion that it is more technical than this.

    Does anyone know where I can find/learn about all the rules for cadence vs. syllable allocation?
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 280
    It's pretty regular in Latin, so I think you could readily work it out just by taking Latin examples and counting the syllables back in each psalm tone.

    The question is whether this exact pointing system is good in English. The short answer is not really. With the approved translations you end up with awkward-sounding pointing in many cases. You can live with that, which might limit your work's appeal if you make it available, or make judgment calls to shift it around slightly.

    In other threads @smvanroode has linked to some academic work on vernacular pointing that may help inform and fine-tune your judgment calls.

    It sounds like a good project and something I would consider using/buying if it were in print.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,365
    you seem to be asking about the more ornate tone used for the Mass.

    Anyway I would use the Psalm Tone Tool and adjust it if you wish to sing in English, for which there is a check box. The dropdown menu allows you to change the tone including for the Mass tones.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 637
    'A Grammar of Plainsong' from Stanbrook Abbey has clear explanations of how the psalmtones are fitted to Latin texts. That might be a good starting point. The ornate tones used for introit and communion are less flexible than the tones used in the office.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • davido
    Posts: 1,174
    Please see Hostia Laudis by Richard Rice, available from International Library Publications and from his online LuLu store. He sets the antiphon verses to Gregorian tones as found in the Liber Usualis.

    What you should also understand is that the 8 office psalm tones as found in the Antiphonale Romanum are only one set of psalm tones as found in the manuscript tradition. There are enough local variants that there really is no official version. The tones in the Antiphonale are just the ones that Solesmes liked and picked.
    Which is why it is no use trying to shoe-horn the modern approved texts into a mediant for two accents. The people who have been publishing English chant adaptions for a long time - like Fr Samuel Weber, Richard Rice, Columba Kelly and his student Adam Bartlett - have found that newly composed tones, adapted tones, or only using certain Liber tones makes it much easier to point English texts. Remember, this process has been ongoing for 150 years, if you reference the Anglican sources, Burgess, Palmer, Douglas, and the Plainsong and Medieval Music Society.
    No need to reinvent the wheel, there are lots of prior examples to study.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,365
    Well Pothier’s commission picked them, not Solesmes, and they are the official tones. The Vatican Edition remains the official one, which is not to say that other Gregorian tones cannot exist alongside them…

    Also the real problem there seems to be the text itself; I learned tone 7 from the English Lauds at the Colloquium.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,660
    the real problem there seems to be the text itself;
    I am fairly sure that I have seen a comment that the Missal translations are deliberately difficult to set to music. And that is a consequence of misunderstanding the prohibition on setting the Latin Missal texts, which was intended to protect and preserve the treasury of Gregorian chant.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,365
    Well, for the responsorial psalms though, that’s yet a different translation.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 496
    The monastic tones align themselves with the two final accents of a Latin phrase. So no pointing is necessary. if you know where the accents are. Pointing should only be necessary for exception.
    Latin phrase note s usually do not end on an accented syllable. And the chants will have one (or and extra) after that final accent. That tapers the phrase nicely.


    But with English the final note carries the entire final accented word. And this will conflict with the psalm tone charts.
    if you can create the final accent on the final pitch with deliberate repose then you can overcome many problems of locating the penultimate accent while creating a regulated method for pointing a text.


    Solemn tones used on Sunday are more flexible as there are more optional notes and is frequently applied counting syllables form the end of the phrase. You will need to present this with a score.

    I use the Meinrad tones exclusively for about 15 years.
    predictable terminations. no exceptions or elided notes,
    The four- six lines phrases have a rhetorical structure- they sound like a logical conversation even without a text.
    The phrases all end in a repose never in a Broadway belt .
    They work off of the the final accent. The cadential thirds are defined and creating a clearer difference between modes.
    The congregation can sing them with minimum pointing; just italics of bold face.
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