What time does advent end in the EF calendar and Christmas music before?
  • Ted
    Posts: 215
    As I was preparing organ pieces for playing before Midnight Mass, it occurred to me that Advent technically finishes at midnight before Christmas, not before, in the traditional liturgical calendar. That is why there is a Midnight Mass. It is very common to play/sing Christmas pieces before Midnight Mass so I had never given it a thought. But then in French Canada, at least, it is very traditional to sing Adolphe Adam's Minuit Chretiens ("Midnight Christians") that begins the traditional Midnight Mass ceremony, emphasising the importance of midnght. So I began to wonder. Any ideas on what the proper music should be before Midnight Mass, that of Advent or that of Christmas?
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 440
    Best to defer to the rubrics:
    72. Christmastide runs from 1st Vespers of Christmas to January 13 inclusive.
    Within this time are included:
    a) the season of Christmas, which runs from 1st Vespers of Christmas to None of January 5 inclusive;
    b) the season of Epiphany, which runs from 1st Vespers of the Epiphany of our Lord to January 13 inclusive.
    Thanked by 2Ted CHGiffen
  • Ted
    Posts: 215
    Thank you. There rubrics are from 1960, so still apply to the TLM. It is interesting to note, however, that this presented a change. Formerly, it seems, Christmastide began with the vigil Mass, which could be quite late. But I wonder if that fully solves the music issue. Midnight Mass announces the birth of Christ, which neither the vigil Mass nor First Vespers do, but only anticipate the birth. There is a reason for the midnight celebration. So I still wonder if announcing the birth of Christ with Christmas singing before the actual announcement in the Mass is the best route. Sounds picky, but only just wondering.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,269
    yes, but no.

    The office of Advent, and in a way, Advent itself, ends with None, but the Mass is in an in-between spot as it follows None: although the vigil is a day of fast and abstinence when it falls during the week, it is not a liturgically penitential day. Dalmatics and tunics were worn (before 1960, after which the folded chasuble is never used), the altar may have some decoration, but the organ is not played by itself. Of course, in 1960, and when the vigil falls on a Sunday in any set of rubrics, the Mass of the vigil is after Terce.

    I'd say that you are definitely overthinking it. I Vespers happens in the evening. Once the vigil Mass has been said, and None prayed for places where the Mass was in the morning (that is to say, in most places—there are about two places max in the world that have a conventual Mass after None on such days) Christmas may begin.

    I just thought of this this morning, that it'd be nice if, in future years, we sing "O Come All Ye Faithful" complete with the Chord before Vespers (we do not sing Matins, where it would be quite nice to end the service with that hymn that, if it were timed properly, would turn right into the procession for Mass during the last chorus)…otherwise we don't get a chance to sing it as a complete congregation.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 619
    I Vespers happens in the evening

    But when is evening for those places that have a Christmas Eve Mass at 4:00 pm?
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 440
    But when is evening for those places that have a Christmas Eve Mass at 4:00 pm?
    Subject line specifies EF. Do you know of places that do that?
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,632
    It is not a new thing in 1960 that first vespers marks the beginning of a feast. It is mentioned, almost in passing, here:
    § 3. VESPERS BY THE ORDINARY, WHO WILL SING MASS THE NEXT DAY
    This is the case of greatest solemnity. It is supposed that the whole celebration of a feast is one thing, beginning at the first vespers the evening before.
    P 216 Fortescue, Ceremonies …,Second Edition . 1919 New Impression . 1920
    a footnote mentions Christmas as an occasion of this.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,269
    the problem is that we are polluted by the Holy Week and subsequent reforms. In this case, sure, the birth of Christ is celebrated throughout Christmas, from I Vespers where it is still in a way anticipated (cf. the versicle) but the feast is completely normal. It really and truly begins in the previous evening, whereas Easter does not, even though it has Vespers on Saturday that Pius XII cut out, as the office slowly returns to something of its normal form only at Compline, after which we get the Regina Caeli, and then Matins is where the Resurrection happens as an event in time which is drawn out liturgically. But Christmas is not so, since the birth itself is celebrated in terms of Christ's humanity at the usual festive Mass of the day after Terce; the midnight Mass, although the gospel is that of the narrative, celebrates first and foremost the eternal generation of the Son from the Father.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,104
    Most dioceses in this country seem to have a convention -- probably published in the annual diocesan ordo book -- that Vespers may be said at 3 pm or later on a Saturday (and also on the day before a Solemnity).

    So unless there is a specific reason otherwise, it appears safe to take that as the start of the liturgical evening (and therefore the Christmas season) for old-rite purposes also. If your diocese up north has a different time, Ted, please let us know: it never hurts for us to learn about variations.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,486
    There are (or at were) least were dioceses that established 5pm as the earliest time for an anticipated Mass (at least that was long the case in Rockville Centre in my experience), they may have done that to retain 4pm for Vespers.
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