Anyone Familiar with Paul Gibson’s “A Christmas Mass”?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 616
    I’m curious to know what others think about it.

    I’m not sure why, but my parish’s choir has started using this as a Mass setting for Advent (we used to use the ICEL chant settings for Advent and Lent), and presumably Christmas.

    Is it just me, or is this a terrible Mass setting? From the congregation it’s confusing and difficult to sing. Musically, the text doesn’t fit the music. It feels forced. It’s Advent now, so the Gloria isn’t an issue yet, but it’s pretty terrible. For example, it’s almost entirely sung by the choir, which if it was a beautifully composed piece of polyphony that was capable of raising the heart and mind to God, I wouldn’t care, but this piece is unoriginal parodied insulting garbage. The congregation gets to participate in it by singing the Refrain (is this even allowed? The Gloria text in the Roman Missal doesn’t have a refrain.), which feels insulting.

    This Mass setting makes me feel more like a spectator at a terrible choir concert that employs some sing-a-long sections that I can’t wait for it to be over than being at Mass and fully and actively participating in it. Stuff like this at Mass makes me feel embarrassed to invite people to my parish’s English Mass, especially after watching the Papal liturgies in Turkey.

    Honestly, I really surprised our MD would choose something like this. This is below both his and my parish’s choir’s competence. I feel like saying something, but I don’t want to wake the dormant volcano.

    For those not familiar with it it, here’s the score and links of the Gloria and the Sanctus set (sort of, it’s weird to sing) to God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, and Agnus Dei.

    https://dh8zy5a1i9xe5.cloudfront.net/shared/pdf/preview/30135014.pdf

    https://youtu.be/ERmvcErugvs?si=KofkK9BqGUjp9eg3
    https://youtu.be/JahGilkWhQQ?si=Bi2LTFz45VCcwLMO
    https://youtu.be/cB7j8dElm-A?si=CRvurp1oNMeIa0FS
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,545
    Oh my. This is truly an awful setting. That Gloria refrain is very long and irritating. And "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen"? Yikes.

    I'm sorry you will have to listen to this over the next little while. There are so many better choices. I wonder what prompted your music director to choose this. I would ask.

    May I ask if you are musician in the parish?
    Thanked by 2LauraKaz SponsaChristi
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 616
    May I ask if you are musician in the parish?

    I used to be a member of our Latin Mass schola and choir.

    I'm sorry you will have to listen to this over the next little while. There are so many better choices. I wonder what prompted your music director to choose this . I would ask.

    Unfortunately, I’m not able. Sometimes he has lapses in good judgment and no one else is willing to point them out.

    I guess Lent is coming early this year.

    At least it’s not The Simpsons Gloria.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/Q_KWzXTGCkM?si=JvYQ4olTbnmmk-H8
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 432
    The weirdest part is that it's being used during Advent...

    Our Saturday vigils are very small, so I use a bunch of varying settings of the Mass, the Propers, hymns, contemporary music, chant, etc. On Holy Family Saturday I'll be doing a Mass Setting based on Christmas Carols. I think if using more than once, it would get monotonous very quickly. I don't particularly love settings based on hymn tunes, but they can bring some novelty if used sporadically.

    Gloria Gloria (Hughes/Hommerding) GLORIA refrain, only at beginning and end
    Alleluia Adeste Fidelis (Chepponis)
    Holy Hark the Herald (Andrews/arr. Bolin)
    Memorial God Rest Ye Merry (Foster)
    Amen Resonet in Laudibus (Pascual)
    Lamb The First Nowell (Andrews/Kyler)

    Opening Away in a Manger
    Psalm Greensleeves (Duncan WLP)
    Offertory O Come Little Children
    Communion Of the Father's Love Begotten
    Closing Go Tell it on the Mountain
  • Musicguy57
    Posts: 23
    This is impossible to sing. There are so many other options; Christmas is nearly here and gone. Look toward next year and breathe deeply for the next few weeks.
    Thanked by 4canadash Charles LauraKaz SponsaChristi
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,196
    "Christmas Masses" as a genre are pretty awful. B.O. Klein is decent but has no pre-existing material. Gevaert Puer Natus Est and Malcom Ad Praecepe are great. But anything built on carols is probably horrendous (Schehl is at least skillful. And Charpentier!) Add to that the specific limitations and tendencies of the NO, and it's a recipe for disaster that is best avoided.

    Given that it needs to be learned, I don't really blame them for using it in Advent; you can't really use a congregational Mass for 2-3 Sundays, and there's a tendency to peel away from Yuletide after the Epiphany, instead to dragging it out until the Purification.
    Thanked by 2davido SponsaChristi
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,478
    Oh, dear, Heav'n forfend!

    If I encountered a Sanctus and, especially, an Amen, based on the tune of God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen(!) - which tune is iambic, but the Gibson contrafacta are trochaic, which makes it HARDER for a congregation to engage successfully (the relevant liturgical compositional Monopoly card is: GO TO JAIL! DO NOT PASS GO; DO NOT COLLECT $200) - it would require a level of self-control I doubt even I possess (having encountered many things in the wild to which I have managed to suppress my laughter/giggle reflex) to keep me from breaking out into open laughter.

    Mind you, I once led a choir in an on-the-spot improvisation during a Holy Week rehearsal in a rendition of Happy Birthday to You to our music director - set to the Mode III chant melody of Pange Lingua - which nearly caused said music director to fall off the organ bench in laughter.
    Thanked by 4davido Charles CHGiffen SponsaChristi
  • wspinnenwspinnen
    Posts: 33
    If I can still trust my childhood memories, our parish did this setting prior to the new translation. But, we sang it during Christmas, not Advent.

    In general, refrain Glorias are just a red flag, period. This one especially makes my skin crawl.

    Thanked by 3davido LauraKaz SponsaChristi
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 144
    I do not remember the rest of the Gibson Mass, but the Gloria is terrible. Talk about force-fitting a text into an incompatible melody.
    Thanked by 1davido
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 333
    We never used the entire setting but did use that dreadful Gloria when our current MD was new. She used it for a couple years, and then I asked her if we could stop, and she agreed that she was tired of it, too. It dragged the prayer out and made me dread the Gloria every Christmas season. I love the hymn “Angels We Have Heard on High,” but Gibson’s Gloria is just…yuck.

    Daniel Laginya has a Gloria published by GIA that uses the same Gloria from “Angels,” but the verses are more…classical, if that’s the term. I still prefer a through-composed setting over anything else.

    Sorta related, but I do like some of Proulx’s Missa Emmanuel for Advent. I wouldn’t use the entire setting because we don’t need everything in the Mass sounding like “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel,” but I’ve been at parishes where they will use the Agnus from that setting, and it’s very nice. Kevin Keil also composed a similar piece called “Advent Lamb of God,” published by OCP, that is also nice.
    Thanked by 1SponsaChristi
  • davido
    Posts: 1,156
    Carol mass settings are an insult to congregations and to Art. You are standing on top of the whole tradition of Western music, and you can’t come up with anything more inventive and original than borrowing someone’s popular tune? And all in the name of “participation.” People want to participate in quality.
    Thanked by 5MatthewRoth LauraKaz Jeffrey Quick SponsaChristi Abbysmum
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 88
    Looking at the score for the Gibson Ordinary, it is certainly some of the worst-quality text-setting I have ever seen (the eighth notes on "highest" in the Sanctus? Give me a break. Not to mention the extremely forced syncopations in the Gloria). One silver lining is that it gives me some hope of eventually getting a composition published, since there are (surprisingly) people out there who liked the Gibson setting enough to get it published, and there are enough people who PAY to use it that it stays on the market. Absolutely mind-boggling.
    Thanked by 3Jeffrey Quick irishtenor SponsaChristi
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 144
    since there are (surprisingly) people out there who liked the Gibson setting enough to get it published


    OCP strikes again! If you order that setting, be sure to get a couple more copies of Respond & Acclaim!
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 616
    it would require a level of self-control I doubt even I possess (having encountered many things in the wild to which I have managed to suppress my laughter/giggle reflex) to keep me from breaking out into open laughter.

    This was me the First Sunday of Advent. I do not have a poker face. I had to look down and hide my face.

    Last Sunday I tried to have an open mind and tried to sing the Sanctus, but I’d get messed up by the Sanctus not fitting the meter of the music, and accidentally sing God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen half way through.

    I do not understand why we need to have a different Mass setting for each season for the sake of having a different Mass setting. I can understand replacing a more somber chant setting for Advent and Lent, but we were using an very well-composed Mass setting that our MD composed that was well-known, very singable, and sung with gusto from the congregation. The Gloria is so well-written compared to anything else I’ve heard since the revised translation that it’s a testament to just how talented he actually is. It doesn’t sound or feel clunky or awkward at all when it’s sung. Now it’s only sung on special feast days, and our normal Mass setting is awkward and clunky sounding. Not many people in the pews sing it.
    Thanked by 3LauraKaz Liam Abbysmum
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 333
    I think a seasonal change in Mass setting can help emphasize the different seasons, but I also think that if you have something good that people sing with gusto, why not just keep using it for a bit longer than seasonally?
    Thanked by 1Abbysmum
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 323
    It seems prudent (in the NO) for one setting for Advent and Lent (10 Sundays). Another for Christmas up to Ash Wednesday (minimally 7 Sundays [I think]. Same setting as Christmas for Easter through Pentecost (which indicates that the setting should be joyful, and perhaps one that can have festive elements for the Solemnities (brass, descants).
    The remaining summer/autumnal ordinary time Sundays can have two settings, each serving for around 12 Sundays each.
    This might be taxing for some congregations, but I played a Saturday Vigil mass for YEARS where the DOM did this. It worked in that situation.
    Thanked by 2Charles Abbysmum
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 118
    It seems prudent (in the NO) for one setting for Advent and Lent (10 Sundays). Another for Christmas up to Ash Wednesday (minimally 7 Sundays [I think]. Same setting as Christmas for Easter through Pentecost (which indicates that the setting should be joyful, and perhaps one that can have festive elements for the Solemnities (brass, descants).
    The remaining summer/autumnal ordinary time Sundays can have two settings, each serving for around 12 Sundays each.
    This might be taxing for some congregations, but I played a Saturday Vigil mass for YEARS where the DOM did this. It worked in that situation.


    We kinda have the same thing happening. We dial it back to just the Roman Missal Chant for Advent/Lent, which has the advantage of working in both English and Latin. We use a shiny-happy setting for Christmas & Easter. We have two other Masses in rotation the rest of the year, plus the Missa de Angelis for a Latin setting (one Mass has Latin week once a month, and we're expanding it to a second Mass starting the new year).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Roborgelmeister
  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 305
    OCP and GIA have several published pieces between them that attempt to turn Angels We Have Heard on High into the actual Gloria. After listening to all of them I've concluded that doing this successfully is impossible. I think the least bad attempt is Alonso's from GIA but there's still some very forced passages.

  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 362
    Why stop there? Let's go for the Gloria from Ding Dong Merrily on High!
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,478
    -but only if the congregation will sing it SATB a cappella!

    https://youtu.be/a_GQP3_gexE?t=10
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