OF folks: Intonation of Alleluia necessary?
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 329
    Do any of you opt not to have the Alleluia intoned by the cantor and instead have everyone come in right after the organ intro? I’ve been seeing this in parishes I sometimes visit, so I wonder how common it is.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    FWIW, it's not something I've ever encountered except if there are no musicians, and the priest just leads a simple three-fold Alleluia with no verse or repetition.
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 508
    yes we do it here. No repetition at all.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,150
    I think it’s one of those redundancies that developed along with cantor ladies raising their sleeveless arms to show you when to start singing.
    But if you want to introduce a new Alleluia melody, it does give the congregation a chance to hear it before being expected to sing it.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 620
    If you are singing the Alleluia from either the Graduale Romanum or Graduale Simplex, then Alleluia is intoned first by cantor(s) and then repeated by the choir (or all). If you're not following these books, then it's entirely up to you.
    Thanked by 4Jeffrey Quick Abbysmum a_f_hawkins Paul F. Ford
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 641
    The repetition only vexes me when at a place where they’re singing the “Celtic” alleluia, or similar needlessly-repetitive dreck, where it’s the theme headed for a V chord, and then the same theme again going back to I. The minister reading the gospel is already to the ambo by the end of the Cantors singthrough, and it is just exhausting to listen to the refrain two more times after that.

    (Criticism does not apply to the Gregorian alleluias, with their completely different form and purpose.)
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,066
    Tbh I think it’s good practice. Coaching them to expect an invocation allows more flexibility for a greater variety.
  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 176
    I've used this method whenever I use the Celtic Alleluia. Saves time and only a few times has the congregation jumped in thinking the cantor was intoning when the cantor starts singing the verse. They catch on. It also helps to keep a full registration, or go bigger than the intro when using this method.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    This is where a habit of avoiding the pedal until you expect the congregation to join becomes easier for the congregation to subliminally associate with "Oh, I sing now".
    Thanked by 2GerardH ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    I think it’s one of those redundancies that developed along with cantor ladies raising their sleeveless arms to show you when to start singing.
    I had a guest cantor for a wedding recently, and she apparently used to cantor a decade ago (I don't even think she is catholic). We were behind everyone in the loft, totally unseen, and she still insisted on raising her arms for every psalm refrain. I couldn't help but chuckle to myself.
    Thanked by 1davido
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    This is where a habit of avoiding the pedal until you expect the congregation to join becomes easier for the congregation to subliminally associate with "Oh, I sing now".
    Yes. And for chant-y things, giving what I call the "Marier boop". I first encountered this method of playing when I visited the Athanaeum a few years ago for the summer conference. I was absolutely smitten by the genius of it. I came home and instantly employed the tactic and everyone figured it out instantly. Now I consider it indispensable where signaling a congregation is concerned.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    Yes, the Marier gathering note. It's the perfect thing. I first encountered it with Himself at the helm over 40 years ago.
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  • Birdsong
    Posts: 11
    I have seen it done both ways. For instance, if it's a familiar setting and the organist's intro takes the place of a cantor, we all sing. This was more so years ago. We have had a choir and sometimes a cantor, for well over a decade. I also like it when the priest intones the Alleluia, particularly the one from Ye Sons and Daughters-- so ancient.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    FWIW, the current GIRM offers in §62:
    ...It is sung by everybody, standing, and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated as the case requires. The verse, on the other hand, is sung either by the choir or by a cantor.

    ...§63c: The alleluia or the verse before the Gospel, if not sung, may be omitted.

    This is sort of ambiguous, but it seems to imply that either interpretation is correct, but praxis (especially in context of the historical practice of incipits and the responsorial psalm which would have immediately preceded the alleluia) largely implies that it is intoned and then repeated. Incipits would at least suggest singing the first alleluia, and having everyone else join in on 2&3.
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  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,627
    The Graduale Simplex was developed (1967) along with the initial thinking about the Propers for the NO. So the praenotanda and rubrics of the 1975 edition are relevant. Very helpfully the first Mass has detailed guidance, p.55 for the Alleluia.image
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
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