Slowing down at the name of Jesus?
  • OrganistfromOntario
    Posts: 13
    I've been to parishes that drastically slow down the chant at the name of Jesus. Is this just a pius tradition in certain areas or is it legislated/recommended in any chant books?

    I'm used to bowing at the name of Jesus, but slowing down the music every time seems a little saccharine...I'm open to reforming how I feel about it, but wanted to ask the beehive.

    Thanks for any input!
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    It’s all up to the music Director of the local church. I don’t think Jesus minds one way or the other, but I noticed this when some people are praying the Aves during the rosary.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,486
    All should bow or genuflect at the et incarnatus during the creed* and sing more slowly at the crucifixus (at least in masses sung in plainchant). I think that slowing down at every mention of our Lord's name would be tedious. I have never heard of anyone doing this. A bowing of the head at the name of Jesus is sufficient - though few Catholics do so.

    *As is stated plainly in the missal and missalette - yet I have not encountered anyone doing this in normal Roman rite masses. Though genuflection is customary in the Ordinariate.
    Thanked by 2IanW CharlesW
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    Slowing down at crucifixus? Never seen it. We slow down at Et incarnatus est in Credo III which is widespread. Gloria IV’s motifs call for a slackening at the end of certain phases including those with the Holy Name.

    In some places like at Le Barroux (which doesn’t have organ for the office accompaniment) they slow down for the Gloria Patri.
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  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Our church slows at the crucifixus during the creed also.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 772
    I've experienced both a drawn out crucifixus and incarnatus, but only in orchestral settings as opposed to chant.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,961
    We slow down drastically at et incarnatus est at our parish (where Credo III is king).
    Thanked by 2Roborgelmeister MatthewRoth
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,235
    We slow down, and a single cantor sings, the et incarnatus. Or the choir breaks into a few bars of polyphony for the et incarnatus. Everyone else, and all the faithful, genuflect during this. We always chant Credo I, though.

    We don't musically mark the crucifixus or the Gloria Patri or the Holy Name.

    At two other places nearby, the custom is to chant the Credo alternately between a male schola and a women's choir (the latter typically joined by the faithful during the Creed). Then the et incarnatus is always the schola's “turn”, slowed down indeed, everyone else genuflecting.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    I can't speak to any experience in chant like that, but in a piece like Palestrina's setting of the Alma Redemptoris Mater, I am fond of treating the "Ave" specially as a participation in a moment beyond time and space - a zikkaron/anamnesis kind of thing making present a metaphysical unity.
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,193
    This might be a priest-driven thing in the Gloria; it's not always easy to hear the Name, especially in polyphony, and that would make it easier. It's not a usual custom

    We slow up for "Et incarnatus..." and drop the organ for "et homo factus est" . Additionally, we often sing those words in 3-part harmony. We speed up a little for the Crucifixus, but don't really get going until the Et resurrexit.
  • ClarkeMitchell
    Posts: 12
    I used to do this in the Gloria, describing it as a kind of vocal bow, but then it got annoying so I stopped. In some Glorias slowing down made sense, but less so when the name of Jesus was more melismatic anyways. The big downside to slowing down is getting everyone back up to speed afterwards.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Careful with that. You might make the mass too long.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Roborgelmeister
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    @charlesw

    O wow… your V2 is showing
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Nah. I'm Byzantine. We don't do Latin councils. It's interesting how the Latin Rite mass has gotten shorter over time. A priest who let it go over one hour might be run out of the parish.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    FWIW, for most American Catholics, Sunday Mass got longer *after* V2.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    I think it was the sermons that may have done it. When I attended a Latin mass, it was a high mass which was longer.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    High Mass was longer than Low Masses, of course, but most parishes had only one - often the last or penultimate on the schedule, and that was popularly in places considered a punishment for people who slept in on Sunday morning. And it's not just the issue of homilies, but more importantly and significantly the unfolding of the Mass itself in many respects. We've covered this ground in prior threads.
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