Hymns "Every Catholic Child Should Know"
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    Greetings All—
    I've been discussing with my pastor how to approach school masses, and it seems that an intervention of sorts is not uncalled for. While we have song books, [sic] the possibility of me making worship aids for school masses is now on the table. This would allow me to trim away many/most undesirable hymns, and reintroduce traditional hymns which are almost completely absent from our school masses. Nothing is set in stone, but I'm mulling it all over in my mind, and would like to come up with a proposal for the pastor and principal. We are an odd case in that we draw kids from all over town, and many of our kids don't attend mass here on Sundays. While this seems a bit of a bummer at first, it does mean that any impact we have on the children here would have a life beyond just our own parish's borders. It also means that we can provide them some meat that they may not be receiving at their own parishes.

    Sadly, what the parish does on Sunday, and what the school does during the week bear little recourse... And much of what's been happening at the school masses has not been under my control. We are hoping to improve that dynamic, and improve the continuity between how the parish formally expresses itself musically on Sundays and what the kids are learning at school. The song book we currently have is a literal roundup of GIA's greatest hits, a third of which we cannot even sing because of who wrote them. Another third is theologically quite dubious. Selections are currently made by a school teacher (who is not the music teacher) and I'm basically a fancy accompanist. Since I am the DM for the parish (a prominent parish, at that) it's time that we shift this dynamic and put the house in a more proper order. The pastor agrees. That said, it is a kid-gloves situation, and I cannot be a bull in a china shop.

    My current line of thinking is I should compile a collection of, say, 50 hymns "that every child should absolutely know". Focus on just those 50 hymns for the year (we only have one school mass a week anyway). (Well, these hymns and a few basic chants such as the Marian antiphons and mass xviii) In this case, I'm not looking to necessarily "trad pill" the hymnody; just to expose the kids to hymns that they should all recognize / know.

    If you were to laser focus on just the most important hymns (text and/or tunes) what, in your estimation, would they be?


    To start: (these are just what jump to mind immediately in no particular order)

    Alleluia, Sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
    I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say (Kingsfold)
    Hail, Holy Queen
    Immaculate Mary (Lourdes Hymn)
    Be Joyful, Mary, Heavenly Queen (Regina Cœli Jubila)
    Now Thank We All Our God (Nun Danket)
    Holy, Holy, Holy (Nicæa)
    At the Lamb's High Feast (Salzburg)
    Crown Him With Many Crowns (Diademata)
    People Look East (Besançon)
    Take Up Thy Cross (Erhalt uns herr or Breslau)
    Let all mortal flesh (Picardy)
    Faith of Our Fathers (St. Catherine)
    I Sing the Mighty Power of God (Ellacombe)
    Be Thou My Vision (Slane)
    Come, Holy Ghost (Lambilotte)
    Rejoice the Lord is King (Darwall)
    As With Gladness Men of Old (Dix)
    Comfort, Comfort Ye, My People (Genevan 42)
    Hail the Day that Sees Him Rise (Llanfair)
    Holy God We Praise Thy Name (Grosser Gott)
    When I survey the wondrous cross (Hamburg)
    Ah, Holy Jesus (Herzliebster Jesu)
    Passion Chorale
    Once in Royal David's City (Irby)
    To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King (Ich Glaub An Gott)
    Good Christian Men Rejoice (In Dulci Jubilo)
    Jesus, My Lord, My God, My All (Sweet Sacrament)
    At the Name of Jesus (King's Weston)
    Lasst Uns Erfreuen (multiple possible texts)
    Praise My Soul the King of Heaven (Lauda Anima)
    Praise to the Lord (Lobe den herren)
    Sing Praise to God Who Reigns Above (Mit Freuden Zart)
    Come, Thou Font of Every Blessing (Nettleton)
    O Filii et Filiæ
    Sing of Mary (Pleading Savior)
    For All the Saints (Sine Nomine)
    O God our Help in Ages Past (St. Anne)
    The King of Love My Shepherd Is (St. Columba)
    Lord, Who Throughout These Forty Days (St. Flavian)
    All Glory Laud and Honor (St. Theodulph)
    Come Thou, Long Expected Jesus (Stuttgart)
    St. Thomas (In His Temple, Now Behold Him \ Now My Tongue the Myst'ry Telling)
    O God Beyond All Praising (Thaxted). [and Adam's text, Do not Stand and stare in Wonder!]
    The Strife is O'er (Victory)
    Christ is Made the Sure Foundation (Westminster Abbey)
    On Jordan's Bank (Winchester New)
    What Wondrous Love (Wondrous Love)


    I'd like to know what I'm missing, and if you have pushback on any of the above. In addition to these, I'm POSITIVE I'll have to at least include some of what we otherwise tend to wish to avoid, if for no other reason than to avoid a total shock to the system for everyone involved. That would mean things like "Take and Eat" or "this Day was made by the Lord" (Walker) "Praise to You, O Christ our Savior" (Farrell). Things that I can stomach as not "bad" in se, but "we could do better".

    My hope is that I can come to a meeting presenting a positive option, listing a bunch of well-known (and beloved) hymns as happy alternatives to what is being done now. This cannot be an exercise in my esoteric love of obscure hymns. It also cannot be perceived as trying to force a quasi-TLM agenda. This is not the time or place for that discussion (read: on this forum post or in real life). On the bright, while making simple worship aids for the kids will be no small amount of work, it would make for a very straightforward solution for the school children. And I already have hundreds of files in Dorico, so most of the ones I listed above won't take much time to generate at all. Just a change of template and export.

    [And since someone is bound to ask: we are not in a position to purchase new school hymnals or song books; the mere suggestion of putting down the current ones which are only a few years old—even only partially—will be bitter enough.]

    Any help or wisdom would be appreciated.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,524
    As a general comment, I've had some success with starting children's repertoire with tunes that work for more than one hymn.

    At the Lamb's --Songs of Thankfulness
    For the Beauty--As with Gladness
    Love Divine--Alleluia

    Cf NETTLETON, LASST, JESU DULCIS, etc

    I feel tune repetition is a feature, not a bug, and children can sing harder texts when they already have a sense of the tune.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 803
    I would add:

    Jesus, teach me how to pray there are several melodies and perhaps one will appeal to you.

    I am a faithful Catholic, this hymn was written by a Sister of Mercy, Sister M.B., from the Charleville Convent in County Cork, Ireland around the 1850s, she was a school teacher and the original text was "I am a little Catholic".

    Little White Guest there are two melodies for this hymn. A Sister from the Congregation of St. Joseph, Sr. Myra, composed one melody around 1958 and the other which is the original melody was composed by R.F.M. or Richard Frank Ackerman who was a student of the Royal College of Music. The hymn was very popular and widely used across parishes in the United States for First Communion.

    In this Sacrament, Sweet Jesus this hymn was written by Father John Furniss, C.SS.R for the children in his parish at Mass. There are a couple of melodies for this hymn, the link is the melody from the SUNDAY SCHOOL HYMN BOOK by the Sisters of Notre Dame,but the traditional melody first appeared in the MANUAL OF SELECT CATHOLIC HYMNS 1885, compiled by Fr. P. M. Colonel, C.SS.R., The traditional melody gained wide use through the ST. BASIL’S HYMNAL more than any other hymnal.

    Jesus, Gentlest Savior this hymn was written by Father Faber sometime during the 1850s after his conversion to the Catholic Church. Several different melodies were composed by Catholic musicians including William Pitts, Richard R. Terry, and Fr. Louis Lambillotte, S.J.,. The melody I learned was composed by Sir John Stainer.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    I did this for our school also. This was the TOC I came up with.

    http://franciskoerber.com/fleur-de-lys-hymnal/
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,486
    Let all Mortal Flesh Keep Silence - Picardy
    Veni Creator (in English and Latin)
    Most High, Omnipotent Good Lord - Assisi (no. 307 in The Hymnal 1940)
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    I feel tune repetition is a feature, not a bug, and children can sing harder texts when they already have a sense of the tune.
    I agree wholeheartedly. Since we use worship aids, I've set certain tunes to upwards of 10 texts that come out at one point or another in rotation over about a 2-3 year cycle.
    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    Francis, I'm rather pleased to see we are in broad agreement. I didn't list all the Christmas hymns, but barring those, our lists align much more than they differ.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • rvisser
    Posts: 81
    I would add hymns for Benediction (O Salutaris and Tantum Ergo) as well as the four Marian antiphons. We often have Benediction for school events, so this has been important to teach the kids. Even if the students are years away from singing Marian antiphons, having it in the worship aid gives you the opportunity to use it sometime in the future.
  • Bri
    Posts: 139
    ADORO TE DEVOTE - various English translations, including "Godhead here in hiding"
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 260
    I would add the following traditional Catholic hymns to the list. I learned all of these in Catholic parochial school 65+ years ago, and they have stood the test of time. These are all hymns people love to sing.

    O Lord I Am Not Worthy
    Heart of Jesus, Hear
    O Sacred Heart, O Love Divine
    Mother of Christ
    Bring Flowers of the Rarest (for May)
    O God of Loveliness
    Beautiful Angel (Guardian Angel from Heaven So Bright)
    Soul of My Savior
    God of Mercy and Compassion
    Long Live the Pope
    My God Accept My Heart This Day
    Sweet Sacrament Divine

    There is also the DESROQUETTES melody for Be Thou My Vision. This is the one Ted Marrier used to use, and it's in the St. Paul's Hymnal (St. Paul's Parish, Cambridge).
  • Felicia
    Posts: 143
    O Sacrament Most Holy (Fulda)
    God, Father, praise and glory or O God, Almighty Father (Gott Vater sei gepriesen)
  • What Star is This?
    Come Down O Live Divine
    All Creatures of Our God and King
    Hail Queen of Heaven, the Ocean Star
    Dear Angel Ever at my Side

    Trying not to make this just a list of hymns I like, I included topics and sounds/rhythms that I think would appeal to children. Come Down is probably a little advanced in text and maybe too stately, but yeah, I just like it.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 803
    I would like to offer to anyone who might be interested "The Child's Book of Hymns" with music composed by Sister Mary Editha Flannagan, B.V.M. This collection of childrens hymns was published by the Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of St. Joseph's Convent, Mount Carmel, Dubuque Co., Iowa in 1927. This collection was approved by Dr. Otto A. Singenberger, Director of Music, and contains a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur Cardinal George Mundeiein, Archbishop of Chicago. There are 67 pages and about 80 hymns that were written for children. The scanned copy is about 19mb. I don't think I can post this to the forum, if interested send me a PM.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    Well, as of Jan 1 this year in the USA (not true in other countries), works from 1929 and earlier are public domain.
    Thanked by 2oldhymns Don9of11
  • I wouldnt shy away from teaching some Latin Hymns. Children do very well with learning them, better than adults sometimes. In fact, when I used to teach children, they become very excited and proud of themselves for learning them.

    Tantum Ergo
    Salve Regina Simplex
    Regina Caeli Simplex
    Flos Carmeli
    O Salutaris
    Stabat Mater
    Iesu Dulcis Memoria
    The Feria Mass Parts
    Ambrosian Gloria

    Some of these are quite simple for them to learn.

  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Thanks Serviam et al for this post… this may augment my own hymnal contents. And yes, do not shy away from Latin hymns as listed by monasteryliturgist… I have had the same success with children throughout the years.
  • Justine Ward selected some excellent examples of simple chant melodies for your target group.
  • dannyboi0513
    Posts: 29
    An Army of Youth.
    Thanked by 1oldhymns
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 429
    When I was an 8th grade teacher, I had the students sing At the Cross Her Station Keeping for a school mass on Our Lady of Sorrows. They absolutely hated singing it and sounded miserable. It was perfect!
  • davido
    Posts: 1,150
    Pueri Cantores USA has a list of recommended rep for Catholic school masses that is worth consulting.
    https://www.pcchoirs.org/sites/default/files/Music_Listing_Resp_Psalm_1218.pdf
  • Musicguy57
    Posts: 22
    Given the musicological bent of this forum, it is intriguing that some of the hymns on this list are considered "Catholic". Before the Second Vatican Council, the bulk of these selections would never be allowed in the Roman Rite. Hymns with texts by Isaac Watts, the Wesleys, Martin Luther, and so many of the leaders of the hymnody movement in the Reformation churches were forbidden. It might be more accurate to say these are examples of hymn texts set to 4 part hymn tunes that have clear roots in the Reformation. Selections of Chant are effectively Catholic, as are, we must admit, the post-Vatican 2 contemporary tunes that are not on this list. Just thought I would add some clarification.
    Thanked by 2oldhymns DavidOLGC
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    From elsewhere on the internet:

    O Jesus We adore You (O Sacrament Most Holy)
    Heart of Jesus
    Soul of My Savior
    Godhead Here in Hiding (Adoro te)
    Creator of the Stars of Night (Conditor Alme Siderum)
    Of the Father's Love Begotten
    O Sacred Heart, O Love Divine
    The Church's One Foundation (Aurelia)
    Hail, Holy Queen
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    And Thank you all for your input here. I think this is a very solid list. I'm going to collate it together, and perhaps see about releasing a PDF of these "essentials". We'll see. My new summer project.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    (As an aside, I had to laugh at the responses I got on FB to this question in one prominent catholic musicians group. Lots of...dross. lots of dross. It was, in a certain sense, a survey of where parish priorities lie. So it's pitiable, but we've long known that the people on this forum are in the minority.)
  • Felicia
    Posts: 143
    @Musicguy57

    (Apology for self-promotion)

    If you're interested, I wrote a book chapter on this topic years ago. It was part of a project on Hymnody in American Protestantism. I submitted a proposal about Protestant hymnody in Catholic worship, and it was accepted. (At the time, I was in a faculty-status librarian position on the uphill path to tenure, and needed to beef up my publication profile.) Anyhow, here's a citation:

    Piscitelli, Felicia. “Protestant Hymnody in Contemporary Roman Catholic Worship,” in: Wonderful Words of Life: Hymns in American Protestant History and Theology, edited by Richard J. Mouw and Mark A. Noll (Grand Rapids. Mich.: W.E. Eerdmans, 2004), 150-163 (essay) and 265-272 (appendices).
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,486
    The Liber Cantualis contains many Latin antiphons and hymns that are child friendly.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    From my point of view, a good hymn is a good hymn, no matter who wrote it. If it is theologically and musically sound, it is fair game. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, as the saying goes.

    I heavily favor the scriptural tropes of Isaac Watts, for instance. Rather humorously, I once had someone level the complaint that he wasn't catholic and therefore we shouldn't sing his hymns... I had to laugh, and I responded with the rather obvious observation that the text in question was a trope of Holy Writ...
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 297
    St. Paul VI told us what the minimum repertoire a Catholic should know in Jubilate Deo. Very little the music there are hymns. I might suggest having the children master those chants along with a mass setting or two from the Graduale Simplex or an English translation of the Graduale Simplex.
    Thanked by 3Lars DavidOLGC LauraKaz
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    Sigh.

    This was bound to happen.

    I know about Jubilate Deo. And I’m trying to implement those things too.

    But it has to happen in degrees, and I cannot pivot from GIA’s happy flappy finest to Jubilate Deo overnight. That means improving the hymnody which — like it or not — is a feature of the novus ordo land. We do some of the simpler chants already. But I need to wean the school off of the bad hymnody, and going straight to heavy doses of Latin chant won’t do it. Certainly not in the first year.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,150
    Lol, Jubilate Deo is nice, but Pius VI wasn’t a church musician and people are clearly able to learn a whole lot more music than that.
    If we teach people that church music is just Jubilate Deo and Graduale Simplex, we are doing them and ourselves a disservice.
  • Jubilate Deo was a minimum repertoire of Gregorian Chant. The comment very misleadingly implies Jubilate Deo discourages vernacular hymnody.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 803
    Vernacular hymns have been part of the Catholic church since the early 1840s in the United States, England and Ireland. Many were written by Catholic priest, Sisters from various orders most notably the Sisters of Notre Dame, Sisters of Mercy, and Sisters of St. Joseph, and nearly all of the hymns were written with children in mind, plus they have theologically sound text and singable melodies!

    There were also a number of people like Eleanor C. Donnelly, Eliza Allan Starr, Emily Shapcote, Helen Hielscher, Orby Shipley, Wm Pitts, Pietro Yon, and so many others who wrote and composed good Catholic hymns. We shouldn't abandoned all their hard work.

    Hymns are the most efficacious means of passing on the Catholic truths to the people. You can't do that with chant no matter how hard you try, while chant is beautiful, and we are asked by the church to learn the mass parts to simple chants, and it has "pride of place," it should not replace hymns.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,506
    https://sacredmusiclibrary.com/_product/PlWcpqeR55QFopKX

    A Catholic School Hymnal plus an Organ Book - A Pay What You Want Book starting at $0.00 Paginated as a booklet - print and fold.

    Fewer hymns sung over and over again increase the number of people singing.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 887
    They're all great hymns but it would be a stretch to include Darwall's 148th, etc., in Catholic Core.
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 260
    Don9of11 is absolutely on the mark when he states above, "Hymns are the most efficacious means of passing on the Catholic truths to the people." In fact, Sister Mary Alexis Donnelly, the Sister of Mercy who compiled three hymnals, wrote in the preface to the 1927 edition of her Our Lady of Mercy Hymnal, Volume II, "These sacred selections were chose because experience has proved that the best way to inspire youthful minds with the truths of our holy religion is to have them sing these truths." Hymns of this genre can still serve the same purpose they served up until the 1960s.

    Noel's comment, "Fewer hymns sung over over again increase the number of people singing" deserves consideration, too. J. Vincent Higginson (1896-1994), (pseudonym, Cyr de Brant) once told me in a conversation I had with him at his home essentially the same thing. On that same day, he wrote the comment in an autographed copy of his Mediator Dei Hymnal, GIA, 1955, which he gave me at that time; and I still cherish. Higginson was one of the greatest Catholic composers, researchers, and hymnologists in the 20th Century America. He was a Fellow of the Hymn Society of America and authored, among others, two books related to Catholic hymns: History of American Catholic Hymnals (1982) and Handbook for American Catholic Hymnals (1976).
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 469
    Given that this is a list for American children, it's mildly amusing to see Faith of our Fathers listed.

    I know you may have projected it onto your own history, but the original meaning is in no way relevant.

    Equally, since it's for Americans - surely there should be some Spanish language hymns?
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 772
    Certainly "fathers" can be read generally as the saints and martyrs who have gone before us? As an american who has sung this hymn frequently throughout my life, I never once felt that it was a historical hymn which, really, only applied to the English...
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    American Catholics are likely almost entirely ignorant of its English context. If informed of it, Irish-Americans - the dominant Catholics in the USA until the current age - might well raise at least one eyebrow and think of it as rather applying to their ancestors even more. And Catholics from Germany and esp. Poland-Lithuania might as well.
  • In any case there were also Priests here who were chained in prisons dark
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210

    Equally, since it's for Americans - surely there should be some Spanish language hymns?


    Err no. One, because there are Spanishes and Spanish cultures, although Guadalupe is, in the U.S., becoming a pan-Hispanic and pan-ethnic devotion. Two, because the church is Anglophone in practice and the vast majority aren’t close to bilingual in practice or in theory (that is, they would be bilingual but would have no use for it). And the commercialized Spanish music for the church is terrible.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    And it's not like Spanish is quite as uniquely pre-eminent as THE second domestic language in all places. It's getting competition. In Massachusetts, other languages are gaining on its tail.

    https://datausa.io/profile/geo/massachusetts/demographics/languages
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,210
    And indeed, there has long been a better case for Portuguese as the second language.

    It may have been eclipsed by Spanish, but it’s still pastorally relevant in much of the state: Boston, the South Coast, and into central Mass.
    Thanked by 2Liam CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    Oh, yea, Spanish is a newcomer in Massachusetts compared to Portuguese and its creole variations. Though Boston long had strong trade ties to Central and South America, and that's why the see of Boston also maintained strong links to key dioceses there.

    The episcopal ordination of + Barbosa as auxiliary bishop of Boston was a Lusophone field day at the Cathedral of The Holy Cross. One of the first tasks ++Henning set for himself a year ago upon being named Abp of Boston was to become fluent in Portuguese, and he seems to be doing well. (Cdl Sean being fluent multilingually is a hard act to follow, but to my trained ears, ++Henning's Spanish is more idiomatically natural/graceful than Cdl Sean's otherwise excellent Spanish.)

    That said, the contemporary pastoral music for both Iberian languages used here leaves a huge lot to be desired.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,486
    ...a stretch...

    What's wrong with Darwall???
    I have done Darwall's 148th numerous times at St Basil's Chapel at Houston's UST.
    From the first word to the last syllable they sing as if they believe every word.
    And, they are not alone in their enthusiasm.
    Darwall is a very stirring tune and it should be on every choirmaster's list of hymns to learn.
    And children would love it!
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    I don't think it's that it's *wrong*, but the objection is to it being assumed to be "Catholic Core". There's a difference between those categories.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,150
    The post-conciliar era presents the opportunity to reform the “Catholic core” to only the best hymns.
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 641
    In any case there were also Priests here who were chained in prisons dark


    Notably the Berrigans….
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    I did say hymns that every Catholic child should know, not that they had to be of Catholic origin. Many of the best hymns have come to us via other traditions (presupposing we are not specifically addressing office hymns).
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • @Gamba and notably hundreds of priests during the colonial periods who secretly said mass and sometimes were killed for the faith if not by native americans then by colonial protestants.... a little known fact that has been erased little by little from our history books.
  • Ted
    Posts: 213
    It astonishes me that American Catholics rarely sing, if they have even ever heard of it, a most wonderful Catholic hymn written by St John Henry Cardinal Newman, soon to be declared a Doctor of the Church: "Praise To the Holiest in the Height". It also has a wonderful tune composed for it by a great Catholic composer, Sir Richard Runciman Terry, called "Newman". In my opinion, every English speaking Catholic should know that hymn with that tune.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,464
    Another setting that was customarily the final hymn on the Fifth Sunday of Lent at St Paul's Harvard Square back in the day (sung/felt more in a stately yet flowing 2, rather than 4):

    hymnal-285-Praise-to-The-Holiest.pdf
    175K
    Thanked by 1Chrism