Upgrading to Better Organ Shoes
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    OK

    I have done worn out my shoes... (too much Bach? Nah... I'd buy 100 pair to keep playing his works)

    They are an old pair of Organmasters... was never really impressed with them, although mine have to be 20 years old or more. Perhaps they are better made these days.

    Now thinking of getting some higher heel narrow tip dance shoes... anyone have any recommendations on the subject?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Organmasters are not better these days, in my opinion. I think they have gone down a bit in more recent times. I don't believe they are made in the U.S. any more. This from someone who has 4 pairs of them. There is another company https://www.tictactoes.com/dance/organist_choose.htm that makes organ and dance shoes.

    Hope you are not one of those organists looking for Virgil Fox/Diane Bish rhinestone shoes. Those Bach players do love attention.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Charles... I am going for studded, programmable laser spot lights that match pulse with the dancing on the keys! Just wait for when I post the Jig Fugue on Youtube...

    https://youtu.be/Rd8afvGsYow?t=97
    Thanked by 3CharlesW CHGiffen PhilipPowell
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya7Pop9QoUo
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    one of my favs for the jig on a flentrop

    perfect tempo to hear the voices and the harmony... (often played by others too fast)

    https://youtu.be/nOP_0YRHbZo
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    what about these shoes?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRc-EzKxGWk
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Now those shoes are flashy. I agree, Francis. Those works are often played too fast.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    This really shows how tempo matters. These also show the impact of the actual instrument on how a piece sounds, even to an unsophisticated ear.

    I vote for sequins on the heels.
    Thanked by 2francis CharlesW
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Well, I am no Cameron to be sure, but I think he wears this particular style for flexibility and accuracy in playing the pedals. The sequins simply because his feet have earned him the extravagance.

    Does anyone else have any comments on shoe recommendations?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,180
    I think organ masters and tic tac toes are essentially the same. No, they aren’t the be all end all in construction quality, but they are the right tool for the job and have more significant heels (for men anyway) than other generic dance shoes.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Francis,

    Is this an amusement, especially with those glow-in-the-dark monstrosities, or is this a serious inquiry?
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    I need new organ shoes. Charles derailed the serious nature of my inquiry and I fell for it.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Francis, I told you about Tic Tac Toes. I saw a pair of them a fellow organist has and they seemed better made than Organmasters. This has been a few years ago so I hope the quality is still the same.

    Your feet gliding across the pedals in those rhinestones would be something for the congregation to remember.

    Happy Pi day!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 176
    Currently I've been using these for about three years and enjoy them much better than any OrganMaster or TicTac I've ever owned. https://us.movedancewear.com/ray-rose-mens-slip-on-ballroom-shoe-black-p4484/

    These also look promising https://www.avriel.com/organ-shoes/slip-on-organ-shoe/prod_57.html?fbclid=IwAR3VDtJFLCeg2-u6JnqHve0-9aGR6iWMg_ondq-aFP1PGPl-jpgyMQSWj1o

    Thanked by 2CharlesW ServiamScores
  • TCJ
    Posts: 1,034
    I've had my Organmaster shoes for about 14 years now. They're worn, but still usable. It's hard to compare them because they are the only type of organ shoe I've had. They are made in China, I think, so that is one mark against them. At least they aren't slip-on though! I refuse to buy anything that doesn't tie.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    like the look of these

    https://www.avriel.com/organ-shoes/organ-shoe-lace-up-oxford/prod_228.html
    Thanked by 2CharlesW RedPop4
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    I like them, too. Looks like the heel may be a bit higher than some other brands. I like those slip-ons OrganistRob320 listed the link for. I seemed to constantly have to re-tie my oxfords because they inevitably would loosen during use.
  • RedPop4
    Posts: 51
    Francis, those look really nice.
    I haven't had organ shoes in 20+ years and I am researching before I spend my money. My last pair were actually a pair of Capezio flats.

    Thank you all for the current information, at this point I am considering either the TicTacToe or the Avriel.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Just ordered the Avriel Oxford ties. Will keep yall updated on how they perform. Thanks everyone for their input, (and fun jokes and tangents... sometimes the jokes are better than the OP.) (PS... I will let you know if I apply sequins once I brush up the jig fugue and post it on YT.)
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Carol
  • 32ContraBombarde32ContraBombarde
    Posts: 147
    My alter ego highly recommends Timberland steel toes. ;-)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01ues6tKsiU
    Thanked by 4PhilipPowell CharlesW RedPop4 Earl_Grey
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    In my younger days, I played in Hush Puppies for years. Around college age I got a new organ teacher who pushed wearing Organ Masters. I think you can play in nearly anything if you want to.
  • Kevin814
    Posts: 43
    I've played in Organmasters exclusively for the past 25 years, but I've been disappointed with the quality of the newer ones compared to my first pair. On a whim -- and thanks to this thread -- I decided to order the slip-on shoe from Avriel that OrganistRob suggested. The company is based in Canada, but the sticker on the shoes themselves says Made in Mexico (oh well, still a shade better than China, I suppose).

    It's a very different kind of shoe than the Organmaster -- a lot thinner, feels like you're playing in a slipper with a chunky sole. It may take some time to adjust, but I quite like the feel of it so far.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    I think Tic-Tac-Toes closed several years ago. I am still with Organ Masters but I agree the quality is not what it once was. I haven't looked at the Avriel so I can't comment on them. Sad to say, they were another thing I never got around to doing. Some say we are supposed to play Bach in socks, at least Raúl Prieto Ramírez seems to think so. Wonder what old JSB would think of that?
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    They are not much better than organ masters…(therefore I never did the sequins)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Good. Diane Bish doesn't need the competition.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    This is my favorite organist anyway

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=60ut7yIuCEY
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,041
    Holy Ethel Smith! She is good.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tandrews
    Posts: 207
    Y'all don't just use socks all the time?
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 772
    Certainly not...
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,404
    I mostly stopped wearing my organ shoes in 2019 or so. Just socks for the most part since then
    Thanked by 1bjbouwer
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Ouch
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 140
    No socks here - no way am I getting decades of accumulated (insert name) on those.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • AbbysmumAbbysmum
    Posts: 105
    I've played in Organmasters exclusively for the past 25 years, but I've been disappointed with the quality of the newer ones compared to my first pair. On a whim -- and thanks to this thread -- I decided to order the slip-on shoe from Avriel that OrganistRob suggested. The company is based in Canada, but the sticker on the shoes themselves says Made in Mexico (oh well, still a shade better than China, I suppose).


    I have a pair of Avriel, and while I loved them initially, I found they stretched to an unaccepable point where they are virtually unwearable now. Because there's not as much structure to them (like you said, slippers), there was nothing to "contain" the stretching, and now they just don't work for me. So back to my socks LOL.
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 196
    This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I learned by watching my instructor (a VERY fine organist and teacher!) to simply find a fine leather soled shoe (Allen Edmonds and the like...) and play in those day in and day out for liturgies and normal practice sessions.

    Wearing shoe covers during inclement weather, and otherwise just dusting off the shoes prior to playing keeps them clean enough to use on pedals.

    That said, I wear organ shoes when I give recitals (and am ramping up for recitals


    https://www.capezio.com/products/k360-character-oxford-shoe

    I got these in grad school. I ADORE them. Best organ shoes ever, and the full leather soles (not suede) are the best feeling on the pedals! (Do replace the leather heel with a rubber heel, to assist with grip.) Also, since the shoes have a solid leather sole, it makes working back and forth between my regular shoes and my organ shoes a much smaller (if almost non-existent) learning curve.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    OK this talk of shoes does really got me thinking. I’ve seen a few clips of Cameron with his wild, large heeled spectacles and I’ve wondered if that would be helpful in playing faster passages. I can’t imagine playing in socks.. how do you get any heel leverage? Back in my teen years I did have a pair of Capezio’s. They were patent leather mind you! I have contemplated going back to dance shoes. Anyone else have dance shoes?

    @animavocis
    I don’t think I would ever add rubber to organ shoes as then you could not slip and slide to where you need to go. What is your experience?
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Oh, and by the way, I also have plans on making custom bench shims that come in a wooden box with a nice carry handle. On the side of the box is inscribed, “statuisti in loco spatioso pedes meos.” I suppose there could be a place for the shoes too. (Or a small drawer for you socks people?)
  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 176
    Years ago when I started I would wear ballroom shoes, essentially tap shoes without the taps. The last pair with laces I bought are still in my "travel" music bag and have lasted longer than any Organ Master I've ever owned. I now prefer slip on shoes for ease of use and less bending to tie them and back pain.
    For several years I would just wear a pair of Dockers loafers, full leather bottom so you could have the needed slide on the pedals. Though it is rather hard to find a pair of dockers without some rubber on the heel or even toe currently. One can make a rubber heel work, I mean who hasn't played in sneakers at some point?
    I tried the Avriel, but I did not enjoy them and the stretch and quality seemed less than Organ Master.
    I will have to keep searching for a replacement for the Ray Rose I linked above since they have been discontinued unfortunately.
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 196
    Everyone's mileage may vary, and I think it depends on how you were trained and what your pedal technique is. I was taught that pivoting is done from the toe, never the heel; in addition I was taught to never slide forward or backward on the toe or the heel. Everything is about economy of motion, making the smallest and simplest movements needed...

    I find that I like having grip on my heels, so where I place my heel is where it stays... No slipping for me!

    (I have no intention to imply that my technique is perfect... FAR from it....)
  • francis
    Posts: 11,175
    Found this

    https://viscount-organs.com/how-to-perfect-your-pedal-technique/
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • AnimaVocis
    Posts: 196
    That's an interesting take from viscount...
    Thanked by 2francis irishtenor
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