I believe that Cantors have a place in the music ministry in a typical parish but I agree that where it is possible choral/ensemble singing ought to be encouraged and fostered. Cantors are good to have (good cantors will arise as a result of good choral experience) when for example, the entire ensemble is out sick or unavailable; it would be better to have the cantor instead of no music at all. Having Cantors is a tool for music directors. Every music director’s situation is different; in the parish near me, the choir is still building up its program which includes recruiting and training capable singers to do ensemble music. Cantors have to take on the bulk of the work until they can achieve polyphony.

Absolutely agree. Even if one is fond of the cantor model. where is one to get cantors if youth are not trained to sing? And where does the cantor model come from? It apparently predates Vatican II, but by how much? It was certainly never seen as the ideal.

I see I overlooked your point 5 which already referenced TLS (and MS). Gracious of you to be patient with that.

Sounds like I mostly agree with you. I think a potential response to someone who came to you expressing this point of view would be,

"Yes, that is a legitimate and common way to run a parish music program. The way we are doing it is also legitimate, focuses particularly on developing music skills in our parish youth, and is the way the pastor and I choose to run the program here at St. Veronica. If you or someone you know would like to be integrated into our music program here at St. Veronica, auditions are at XYZ time on ABC date."

You need both.

We have a Mass with only hymns plus the Marian antiphon. Normally no propers, it is a low Mass (NO). No one sings (I really don’t know why we bother) but it’s made worse in a way that there is just one singer who is quite good but, well, this is not how things work. Either he is just the strong voice and people sing with him (he’s not mic’d, so I don’t have too many issues with not having a choir or quartet) or he shouldn’t sing at all. My pastor wants this Mass to be like this, so it is what it is. But it’s a bit distressing, and the poor result (no one sings) is not for lack of trying, the congregation is just flat-out not interested.

Now, as to the rest of it, yes, but at some point, you have to get people to sing in smaller groups. The propers stop making sense. Plus, you want people to be able to carry on with as many full propers as possible if an emergency occurs (illness, major accident, etc.) if the choice is doing that or having a high Mass at all.

We do the office, so there is solo singing. Incipits, the alternation (the odds for us), the versicles, the verses of the responsories of Tenebrae.

We try to divide into smaller groups or otherwise have stronger singers do the verses of the longer propers in addition to the incipit and the first alternation of the Kyrie (I was once again affirmed in thinking that alternatim is the way to go for the Gloria and Credo too: one voice, particularly of the opposite sex, that is much stronger overwhelms the group).

We try the division by voice types. It winds up making us think of gym class every time. There are a few of us who are higher ranged (including true tenors — we exist!) and others who sound lower and one voice that bridges the gap, so his absence is keenly felt, in addition to the fact that he’s been our leader for over five years. Unfortunately we probably will always have one voice stick out a little. But when we get rolling on the tracts, or at least the verse of a gradual, when we either split in two mostly by voice types (ideally for tracts, IMHO, but we’re not quite there yet) or have our strong singers, we sound unified, or at least I think so, with some practice under our belt, with the core having two years or more together.

Now I’m mostly musing about experiences with adults, but I think that a lot of this applies to kids.

I think this is a good approach, but you know who’d know more about youth and would have heaps of advice? Mary Ann Carr Wilson in San Diego who runs the Canticle program these days. She’s great!

While these are noble ideals, a cantor Mass is often all that's practical. A large novus ordo parish may have as many as seven or Masses with music weekly, not counting funerals. You can't expect a single choir to sing for that many Masses, and one person probably can't organize and direct that many separate choirs well. TLM priests, on the other hand, often expect High Masses on feast days, First Fridays, etc., and you run into the same problem of insufficient personnel, exacerbated by the reality of non-territorial "commuter" parishes, where none of the singers lives or works close to the church. Compare your local large Protestant churches with traditional services. They may have an adult choir of 40, 60, or more, and a congregation that sings enthusiastically, in which the ministers also participate. And they have one or two Sundays services and no midweek services with choir. Their weddings and funerals are typically just organist and soloist, but if there's need for choral singing for a special service, they generally have no problem getting a balanced ensemble with whoever's available. Although they don't use cantors in the novus ordo sense, a lot of Protestant churches do have a visible choir director or precentor conducting the congregational singing, and Baptists often have the choir director's voice amplified.

The source of the dichotomy (like so many other dilemmas) to me goes back to the invention of the low Mass/read Mass. When Sunday Mass ceased to be “a singular and solemn event to which the entire parish/community shows up, fully sung, with smoke and 3 ministers”, but rather became something repeatable, with a whole bunch of Masses, only one of them sung, people got used to picking the Mass at the most convenient time (and often the speedier Low Mass).

In so many parishes today, the entire weekend attendance over all the Masses could fit into the church simultaneously for one Mass.

But woe betide the pastor who tries to “take away my Mass time”.

So we have priests running themselves ragged to say 5 or 6 weekend Masses often in multiple churches, and yet none of them comes close to being full.

Whereas if they were more logically structured (say one read Mass Saturday night or early Sunday for the workers) and a single Sunday sung Mass, all of a sudden the pool of potential choristers is huge. There can be a coffee hour, Sunday school, all sorts of other programming afterwards because there are enough volunteers on hand to make things happen. The odds of parishioners getting to know each other increases, too.

But when there’s six Masses a weekend, unless there’s enough money to pay a pro choir or multiple choir directors, it’s just unfeasible to field and manage choirs for all of those Masses.

It’s about money though. Pastors are afraid that if they cut mass times, parishioners will go elsewhere or stop giving and they will not be able to meet budget requirements or fund their projects. Also connected to lack of vision and lack of trust.

Also there should be one Mass without music (the earliest or at least around 7, 7:30). I went to an earlier Mass than my parents once when coming back from vacation to avoid music at the end of July/beginning of August…oh boy was I wrong. I got the full four-hymn sandwich.

"But if people have a choice, they might just up and leave when you take away "their" Mass time."

Many most definitely will, and it's been permitted ever since the promulgation of the revised Code of Canon Law in 1983. It's really better to consider what falls under the name of "parish" a cluster of parish communities, even with only one site to share.

"Has the 'Cantor Mass' given the impression (or perhaps become the standard) that only ONE person is capable of singing the Mass at a time?"

No. That's a strange impression.

I have run into several cantors who say they can't or refuse to sing with other singers. It is very strange.

I’ve been a cantor for several years and have been asked several times in those several years to join our choir, but honestly, I love the flexibility of being a cantor. It’s not a weekly commitment, no rehearsals until 30 minutes before my scheduled Mass, and I am not nailed down to the same Mass every weekend. I love that. I also tend to prefer earlier Masses, and our choir sings at our later Mass. I love attending Mass early on Sundays.

I venture to think other non-choir cantors might think and feel the same.

**BTW I find this topic extremely important because I fully believe the 'cantor Mass' is the #1 reason we lack a demographic of singers in the choral sphere. And furthermore, it's the reason why it can be difficult to implement Sacred Music consistently anywhere because the lack of development in Sacred Music

I think you hit on something here, my friend. Choral singing, on many levels, is a dying art. I am blessed enough to live in a town with very deep roots in choral singing and some excellent ensembles one can join... in the secular world. I sing in one at the university, in part because I wanted the experience of singing in a well-developed choir. I have learned so much in only one short season!

A large part of the issue with many choirs in local parishes, IMO, is that the directors themselves never received adequate formation. They might be very accomplished solo singers or cantors, but simply don't have sufficient formation specifically in choir. This is especially acute in situations where the director may be a volunteer.

But, like you point out, it's basically a chicken-and-egg problem at that point. You can't develop Sacred Music without there being Sacred Music already developed. So how do you develop the Sacred Music?

The more fundamental and longer-term issue in director formation is that so many are keyboardists/instrumentalists first and foremost and perhaps only, and lack as deep or any professional formation in choral singing.

This applies to vocalists as well as instrumentalists. I have met many who have no interest in learning choral singing. How they managed to get through their music education without learning must have been by sheer force of will!

Hello, I am a cantor mostly now. I have sang for around 30 years with our choir. WE even went to Rome and sang many venues there including for the Pope. We recorded CD's and that is great since you can revisit them and be uplifted. I believe in a choir, but we have few singers in the ladies section, but good strong men voices. We use a cantor with the choir too. I sing mostly on Sat. as a cantor with my director/organist/vocalist who sings along when he chooses. To keep this short, I know when I am leading I am very grateful for the privilege to do so, and I study the music what ever he chooses and am allowed to have an input. My congregation is very responsive! I am not up there "showing off" I am truly singing to uplift the people through God's word. It is not an easy task. Great dedication is necessary. I used to think "who am I to..." But as I have aged through so many masses.. with or without the choir, I realize that God does want me to continue in this path. All singers are good, they don't have to be "perfect" because only Jesus was perfect. Do the best you can for GOD and his people. I sing for nursing homes etc...,too and it is a music ministry, both secular good songs and sacred which they love too. Today I sang Ave Maria and Hail Mary Gentle Woman by request for mothers...etc... I think people should let go and let God enter and fill their hearts and quit putting down anyone who tries to sing. Too many judgmental comments. All singers should welcome other singers if their heart is true. Make a joyful noise for the Lord. Smile and sing.....I write songs too. Cantor money no...gifts from God come instead.....Like a cat left by the owners. Stronger in Faith, Hope and Love...forgiveness!!!! Peace in my heart and mind!