In Paradisum is not a hymn. It’s not an antiphon either, not in the strict sense since it has no psalmody, but it’s not a hymn. We tend to call these chants antiphons anyway, and in compositional terms, they approach the office and other antiphons with psalmody the most.

And sequences are closer to a hymn, but the Dies Irae is emphatically not one. Noticeably, the music is all over the place, whereas some of the sequences are regular ABCD etc. But there is only one hymn in the Mass of the Roman rite, the Benedictus es of Ember Saturday in Advent. Now, it is not like any other hymns, since the Vulgate does not force Latin poetic conventions upon the Old Testament, which does not have fixed meter or rhyme. It is something approaching prose, save for the coupling of themes both in the modern verse divisions (1-2, 3-4 etc.) and in the liturgical division, before and after the asterisk (sometimes: this is not always the case, because sometimes the first part is not a complete thought and is completed, not complemented, by the next part).

To go back to the Dies Irae as not a hymn: I advocate for alternatim when we sing sequences. Sometimes, it’s cantors-schola, cantors-all. Others do men-women. This includes the Dies Irae. However, Dom Lentini stuck it in the office to preserve it, even if not in an obligatory way, which causes problems, because it is unlike any other hymns of the office, as the melody changes between verses. Yes, they repeat, but then at the very end, it’s unique. Regularity of rhyme, meter (to the extent that this is possible: not even the Jesuits of the seventeenth century cared as much as we might care, cf. Tristes erant Apostoli), and therefore of music make a hymn, at least in the Gregorian and modern senses. I like “I am the Bread of Life” a lot, actually, especially the Proulx arrangement, but it’s not truly a hymn since the verses can be essentially free-wheeled.

Yeah, but it is telling that no one actually calls the Gloria a hymn. And then why do we have hymns, psalms, and spiritual canticles?

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I don’t think that it matters. Your way of looking at the Gregorian repertoire does not strike me as correct even if CNN is too narrow.

I mean I’m not arguing, you’re characterizing this rather bizarrely. I’m disagreeing, but I don’t think that’s an argument or something to try to call me off from doing; forums do not work like that.

I mean, I already explained my reasoning. But if you insist, this is the fruit of everything that I’ve ever heard or read from Dr. Mahrt for example, and since I actually sing this stuff on a regular basis, I feel like that gives some weight to what I’m saying.

Whereas you just said that X are hymns, without support, and I gave my reasons for disagreeing with this characterization. I’m going on cup number 4 of coffee, so I don’t think that’s it’s a lack of sleep or energy keeping me from understanding why this has taken such an odd turn.

It's nice that CNN responded to the question.

We know that metrical hymns are a standard element in the Office (which is about the sanctification of time), but they are not historically a native element in the text of the Mass (an encounter with the time-transcending Paschal mystery). This distinction is something unfamiliar to most of us English-speakers, who hear metrical hymns added to Mass often, and don't think of anything non-metrical as qualifying as a hymn.

On the other hand, in some countries, the songs added to Mass are often not metrical, but have the structure of an antiphon with verses.

The Graduale (1961) describes "In paradisum" as an antiphon, and the Gloria is termed as a "hymn" in the "ritus servandis" of the old Missale.

But of course nobody sang the Gloria at the funeral today!

Sequences are absolutely hymns.

According to St Augustine, St Ambrose's hymns were sung antiphonally, so antiphonal singing isn't an argument.

Those that regularly use the Analecta Hymnica, would have a different idea of what a hymn is. J. Connelly writes about the different types briefly in his book.

The Angelic Hymn, the Prose Hymn and the Sequence Hymn, are all hymns but very different to the Hymns found in the Roman Office. The Greeks also have Hymns but not as we know them.

MatthewRoth, I owe you an apology for getting hot under the collar.

Obviously I have a vested interest in hymns getting as much respect as possible. So that's part of my heat.

And I was up very early this am.

The other part is a genuine concern for the ROTR. I understand why, especially in the historical context of the late 19s and early 20s, it seemed like hymns and propers were enemies. I've heard that rhetorical message among those I count as friends for decades. And I get why. Hymns took over the Mass in this very odd way.

But they're actually both great.

Edit: I'm genuinely sorry for being testy.I was wrong.

As a convert from (High Church) Lutheranism, I love hymns, but I was very glad to see a proper Roman Liturgy without the liberty of hymns being taken.

While there are hymns that I adore and would miss at Mass, I would be perfectly happy if we only had the Propers. Perhaps I'm just the black sheep of the lot....

“And I will rai-ais you UP!”

Good thing they didn't sing "Father, We Thank Thee Who Hast Planted..."

Go drink a YooHoo in memory of the pope and let it be done at that!