Original Music for Psalms
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    I am wondering if there is any concern over creating new music for psalms. I am not a super skilled guitar player, but I am a skilled song-writer. I find most of the music for psalms difficult to play, so I have taken to making my own melodies, and they seem to be appreciated. Is there anything I should be concerned with regarding this? I reside in Canada, so I use the words from the Living With Christ books.

    On a slight aside, I really enjoy finding the most applicable music for each Mass I lead music for. I use a variety of hymns and modern music in an attempt to help the Liturgy stick with people throughout the week. I typically choose songs based on applicability more than what the congregation is necessarily used to. I really want people to have a song or two stuck in their head all week that reminds them of the readings. Is this an appropriate way to go about song selection? I mean, to me it seems like that would be the point of having music at all in Mass in a way. I've only been a Catholic Christian for 4 years though, after over 30 years various Evangelical Christian denominations, so it's been a fairly steep learning curve.

    I always chant the Mass settings, so I'm just talking about the 4 main song choices for the most part. This is my first post here, and I'm looking forward to talking to you all! Oh, and I typically lead music around once per month.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    There’s no requirement for four hymns or your guitar. Here’s everything you need to fulfill your ministry. All is approved for use in Canada by the CCCB.

    https://www.catholicyyc.ca/blog/singing-the-antiphons
    https://www.catholicyyc.ca/blog/exsultet
    https://www.catholicyyc.ca/blog/easter-sunday-and-pentecost-sequence
    https://www.catholicyyc.ca/uploads/6/5/5/7/65570685/guidelines_liturgical_music.pdf

    All music is required to be approved by the CCCB. Furthermore, the Church has strict guidelines for music composer when composing music for use in liturgical settings. Gregorian Chant is the touchstone for determining if music is suitable. No one wants to be reminded of The Little Mermaid during Mass because the new Mass setting is basically The Mass of the Little Mermaid.
    Thanked by 4OMagnumMysterium CHGiffen Brian Michael Page LauraKaz
  • Xopheros
    Posts: 27
    @CMunro11 To find out which Psalm (verses) are to be sung at mass on each particular day or feast, see the Schott mass book, which should be kept in the sacristy of your local church. For an online version, I am only aware of the website of the Benedictine monastry in Beuren, but this is in German. Maybe someone else can point to a resource in English.

    @SponsaChristi Just checked the CCCB guidelines for composers and noticed indeed under point I.3: "The approval of music for liturgical use rests with the Conference of Bishops. It is not permitted to use compositions during the liturgy without at least the approval of the local Bishop." This seems like a tedious pre-censorship procedure and I wonder how they manage this in practice (a post-censorship seems to be much more practical). Do they publish a whitelist of all permitted works? And what does a choir do that wants to sing, e.g., a motet not yet on that list because it was just recently discovered in a 16th century manuscript by some little known or unknown composer?
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 279
    @CMunro11 The church teaches us that in the Latin Rite, the more closely music resembles chant the more likely it is to be fitting for the liturgy. The point of music at the liturgy is not to leave the people with a tune in their head. The point is to assist them in worthily praying the liturgy.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    And what does a choir do that wants to sing, e.g., a motet not yet on that list because it was just recently discovered in a 16th century manuscript by some little known or unknown composer?

    That generally hasn’t been an issue. I take it as a deterrent for people who have no business composing liturgical music singing their compositions in Mass. Our music director has composed music for Mass and has had no issues with the CCCB to my knowledge with its use during Mass. That being said, our music director is competent and has the ability to do his job well.
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    For the record, our parish doesn't have a choir and has maybe 50 adults in attendance on a given Sunday. The style of music I play is not different from the other volunteer music leaders, I was specifically asking about choosing based on the readings rather than having a generic rotation. The only original music I play is the psalm which is the liturgically approved lyrics with a simple melody.

    How on earth do you determine who has "no business composing liturgical music"? Was there a point in history when God called out from the heavens and said, "these instruments and styles are perfect and nobody should create anything else for me!"

    For the staunch Gregorian Chant proponents, do you have time in your schedule to come to every small town parish in Saskatchewan to teach volunteers how to carry on a tradition that they've never been handed? I'll be sure to let my parish know that aside from the chanted Mass settings we must have only silence because the offering of our talents isn't worth anything to the Lord.

    I don't know why I expected to have a genuine dialogue on the Internet, but I'm sincerely disappointed particularly in what comes across as your pompousness, Sponsa Christi. I did also get your first message that seems to have disappeared that said I should just stop doing everything I'm doing. I suspect my priest will not feel the same way, and I will make every effort to meet with my bishop soon.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    For the staunch Gregorian Chant proponents, do you have time in your schedule to come to every small town parish in Saskatchewan to teach volunteers how to carry on a tradition that they've never been handed?

    I’m from Saskatchewan and don’t have much to do, so if the Bishops of Saskatchewan are willing to pay me a living wage with health and dental benefits, yeah, I do. There are simplified English chant propers. There are also the traditional psalm tones that are easy to pick up and learn by ear. And yes, the Church does have a plethora of church documents regarding what instruments are allowed and not allowed, what music is permissible for Mass and other liturgical functions. And yes, there are people who have no business composing liturgical music, as they are not interested in being obedient to the Church’s guidelines for liturgical music.
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 107
    Was there a point in history when God called out from the heavens and said, "these instruments and styles are perfect and nobody should create anything else for me!"


    Well, there have been times when the Church has given out rules about the music to be used for the Mass:

    https://www.saintmeinrad.edu/sacred-music/church-documents/

    https://adoremus.org/1903/11/tra-le-sollecitudini/

    "On these grounds Gregorian Chant has always been regarded as the supreme model for sacred music, so that it is fully legitimate to lay down the following rule: the more closely a composition for church approaches in its movement, inspiration and savor the Gregorian form, the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple."

    "Still, since modern music has risen mainly to serve profane uses, greater care must be taken with regard to it, in order that the musical compositions of modern style which are admitted in the Church may contain nothing profane, be free from reminiscences of motifs adopted in the theaters, and be not fashioned even in their external forms after the manner of profane pieces."

    "Still, since modern music has risen mainly to serve profane uses, greater care must be taken with regard to it, in order that the musical compositions of modern style which are admitted in the Church may contain nothing profane, be free from reminiscences of motifs adopted in the theaters, and be not fashioned even in their external forms after the manner of profane pieces."

    "18. The sound of the organ as an accompaniment to the chant in preludes, interludes, and the like must be not only governed by the special nature of the instrument, but must participate in all the qualities proper to sacred music as above enumerated.

    19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.

    20. It is strictly forbidden to have bands play in church, and only in special cases with the consent of the Ordinary will it be permissible to admit wind instruments, limited in number, judiciously used, and proportioned to the size of the place—provided the composition and accompaniment be written in grave and suitable style, and conform in all respects to that proper to the organ."

    https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/letters/2003/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_20031203_musica-sacra.html

    "Like St Pius X, the Second Vatican Council also recognized that "other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations"[20]. It is therefore necessary to pay special attention to the new musical expressions to ascertain whether they too can express the inexhaustible riches of the Mystery proposed in the Liturgy and thereby encourage the active participation of the faithful in celebrations[21]."

    "The Second Vatican Council fully accepted my holy Predecessor's approach, decreeing: "The pipe organ is to be held in high esteem in the Latin Church, for it is the traditional musical instrument, the sound of which can add a wonderful splendour to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up people's minds to God and to higher things"[43]."

    https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

    " The treasure of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care. Choirs must be diligently promoted, especially in cathedral churches; but bishops and other pastors of souls must be at pains to ensure that, whenever the sacred action is to be celebrated with song, the whole body of the faithful may be able to contribute that active participation which is rightly theirs, as laid down in Art. 28 and 30."

    "120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man's mind to God and to higher things.

    But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

    121. Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures."

    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/10276/all-church-documents-on-music-and-liturgy/p1

    https://sfcatholic.org/worship/church-papal-documents/

    https://www.catholic.com/qa/rules-on-music-used-for-mass

    "Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:

    On the one hand, there is pop music . . . aimed at the phenomenon of the masses . . . (it is) industrially produced and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. “Rock,” on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship, in fact in opposition to Christian worship (The Spirit of the Liturgy, 148)."

    'Instruments that are generally associated and used only with worldly music are to be absolutely barred from liturgical services and religious devotions (MS 63)."


    Thanked by 2SponsaChristi CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,604
    Yikes.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    Let’s not forget what Pope Francis also said about the current state of sacred music in the Church today when he met with participants in a major international conference on sacred music, a half-century after the promulgation of the Conciliar document, Musicam sacram on music in the sacred liturgy.

    Certainly,” said Pope Francis, “the encounter with modernity and the introduction of [vernacular] tongues into the Liturgy stirred up many problems: of musical languages, forms and genres.”

    The Holy father went on to say, “Sometimes a certain mediocrity, superficiality and banality have prevailed, to the detriment of the beauty and intensity of liturgical celebrations.”

    The Pope encouraged the various actors in the field of liturgical music – from composers, conductors, musicians and choristers, to liturgical animators to do their best to contribute to the renewal of sacred music and liturgical chant, especially as far as the quality of sacred music is concerned.


    Thanked by 3CHGiffen DavidOLGC hilluminar
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,516
    CMunro11 - I'm glad I did not rush to comment without considering your particular circumstances. Have you read this :- https://livingwithchrist.ca/index.php/tools-for-parishes/461-music-at-mass As you can see from that the ideal, the first option, is for all the chants to be in the same antiphon+psalm form as the one after the First Reading.
    There are two official sources for Mass music in Latin, which is the original language on which we base the English version. The one intended for small churches like yours (and mine) is the Graduale Simplex, if you have not seen the GS I suggest you look at
    https://media.musicasacra.com/books/graduale_simplex.pdf to see what sort of thing is suggested. Ideally you get close to what is proposed in GS, which is psalms and antiphons similar to the Responsorial Psalm. For a close approximation in English there is By Flowing Waters by Paul F. Ford. If your congregation is not used to that (and few are) it would seem quite alien and I have never experienced it in except in a cathedral. For something more familiar have a look at, for example, https://www.antiphonrenewal.com/blog
    Thanked by 6trentonjconn CMunro11 CHGiffen DavidOLGC … Expand
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 672
    Is this an effective way to welcome musicians who are new to the forum and may be unversed in tradition, and help them to make good music wherever they're working? Some of the responses in this thread could be a case study for why people don't like trads (and I say this as a trad).
    Thanked by 1CMunro11
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    Welcome to the forum, CMunro11. Sorry that somebody got fussy with you.

    Although I sing chant and choral music now, I used to play guitar in church, so I appreciate the contributions and the generosity of musicians such as yourself. (Come to think of it, I was Evangelical too before becoming Catholic, so you get an extra 'welcome' for that.)

    The rule about getting official approval for new musical compositions is on the books here too, but in the US it doesn't seem to be enforced much, except when the new music is going to be published.

    I'd recommend you start local: call the office for worship in your local diocese and ask them whether you need to submit your new psalm settings for official approval at this point.

    The topic of psalm settings for Canada has come up on the forum before, so here are some links to sites and to previous discussions:

    Andrew Malton's psalm settings: https://www.malton.name/

    A previous discussion in which I had the idea of adapting some existing settings to go with the texts used up north: https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/7223/psalm-settings-for-canada/p1

    Another discussion: https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/11528/canada-psalm-and-propers-translation/p1

    And one more, including info on a collection of psalm settings published by Novalis:
    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/4242/canadian-lectionary-responsorial-psalms/p1

    --chonak (webmaster)
    Thanked by 4CMunro11 CHGiffen Liam Xopheros
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,851
    19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.
    I havn't read Tra le sollicitudine for quite a while, and must have missed the part about no bells the first time! Tradition ist Schlamperei, I guess.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    Some of the responses in this thread could be a case study for why people don't like trads

    I’m not a trad. I’m just a Catholic who is tired of inappropriate music at Mass, especially in Saskatchewan.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • Here's a routine reminder: Critique principles, not people.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 672
    Well, trad or not, it's not a helpful approach.
    Thanked by 1CMunro11
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    Let's not rush to make assumptions about what style of music is being proposed.

    Depending on what music the parish has been doing up to now, the new music might be farther from the church's ideals, or closer to them.

    I get the concern. Some months ago, a new forum user said he wanted to write music for the Mass that he considered "more lively" or something. And to me, that sounded as if he were taking styles from secular entertainment music as a criterion or a source of inspirations. That wouldn't be a good idea.

    Psalms, antiphons, and most other texts of the Mass are unmetered prose-like texts, not poetry with a fixed meter. Metered texts can be sung with music that has a steady meter, but prose texts need music that doesn't have a steady rhythm.

    That's why psalm verses, typically structured in pairs, go well with the formulaic music of psalm-tones; antiphons can be sung with free unmetered melodies, or with short metered melodies.

    If a metered melody is used for an antiphon, it should be simple in style, with little use of syncopation and not a lot of contrast in duration between the shortest and longest notes. Features like those tend to make the text conform to the music's predefined rhythms instead of making the music really suited to the text.
    Thanked by 7trentonjconn CHGiffen CMunro11 a_f_hawkins … Expand
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,197
    Just as an illustration of the use of plainchant and polyphonic verses in vernacular settings of the responsorial psalm, in this case from Psalm 24 on the Feast of the Presentation earlier this month, as set by the late Theodore Marier:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/4fjJP5XaByE?si=j9VyyTDwgDeBpfaj&t=1338
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,203
    Welcome, @CMunro11. I am in Ontario. I am a (long ago) convert from Anglicanism.

    I also have not ever heard in Canada, after decades, of any composer’s work being chilled by not having Episcopal permission. On the contrary I've heard recently-composed music in many places including cathedrals. So not be concerned about it. (That said, the Music Commission of the CCCB did, informally but by letter, approve the psalm settings of mine which @chonak referred to above.)

    It's essential to agree with the parish clergy regarding music, though.

    I think the psalms of the CBW III itself are very well worth keeping and using. The accompaniments are very easy to play! (It’s true that the psalm texts in the CBW III are not any longer those in the most recent lectionary, as found in Living With Christ. But they are still useable.) For freshness, having several cantors sing the verses together using the provided SATB homophony is well worth the effort: rarely done but certainly what the editors of the CBW III actually intended.

    As for the choice of songs, I agree that relating them to the readings, at least generally, is right -- but also to the season and to the other texts in the Missal (such as the Entrance, Offertory, and Communion antiphons) is appropriate. And probably what you are doing.

    Best wishes.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor CHGiffen
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,516
    I really want people to have a song or two stuck in their head all week that reminds them of the readings. Is this an appropriate way to go about song selection?
    Yes and notice that there is a choice of Communion antiphons, the second of which usually links to the Gospel reading. In fact this second antiphon is normally not a psalm verse, the recommendation then is to use it with verses from Ps.33/34 (I will bless the Lord ...) or if appropriate Ps.22/23 (The Lord is my shepherd)
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Xopheros
    Posts: 27
    @CMunro11 In the hope that you eventually create some psalm settings: I would greatly appreciate, if you drop a link here to a rendition.

    Out of curiosity: You write that you are a skilful songwriter; I would thus be very interested in listening to examples of your songs. If you do not want to send it publicly, please send me a message via my user page here.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,514
    Coming from a smaller town in Ontario, your church is lucky to have you. Yes to what was said above, especially Andrew's comments. Compose away! And I'm impressed you are chanting the Ordinary. Well done!
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    Thank you chonak, that is super helpful. I am definitely not trying to make music more lively, but more beautiful. If whatever is True, Good, and Beautiful, is the goal, then I feel like it is better for me to do with my skill level, what is the most beautiful, rather than blundering something that is outside of my skill set in the name of "it's older."

    I'm also more concerned with applicability to the readings because I want the people to have the readings soaked into our hearts so that throughout the week we are moved by the liturgy. It's not about leaving a tune in their head, but rather about music being able to commit things to memory better.

    I see there is an attach a file option, I will try to attach a copy of my original take on Psalm 1 from the 6th Sunday in Ordinary Time Year C. I played the new song from the Jubilee Year, Pilgrims of Hope, as the gathering and exit hymn, because I am hoping our parish will learn it and also because of it's theme of trust which was emphasized in the first reading and the psalm. I played Blest Are They because of the Gospel reading of the Beatitudes, and I played Christ is Risen by Matt Maher for communion because of the second reading of 1Cor. 15:12, 16-20. There were not a lot of Resurrection hymns I could find. I certainly felt like the Matt Maher song was a little on the edge, but I chose to go with it because of it's reflection of the importance and enthusiasm of Paul's words.

    Interestingly, I was recently listening to a lecture of sorts by Haig Utidjian who was talking about music from St. Gregory of Narek, and he mentioned something at one point which I found intriguing; "but you cannot suppress the creativity and musicality of church musicians..." I'm genuinely curious about how there can be such a breakdown between the pre-modern era and today. Is there some arbiter of who is allowed to be an artist and create and share things with their church? Why would we assume that nothing new can be created from the Living Word, and He who creates us new every morning?

    My husband is non-musical. I mean, he appreciates music, but he's not a musical artist. He especially appreciates classical music and we have had many discussions around this topic. I'm not trying to be argumentative or obtuse, but I'd like to understand how existence works in a world where, obviously, people used to create things that have been passed down, but nothing is able to be created now. I would genuinely welcome a discussion about this. I can see that modernity has created one of the greatest, if not THE greatest heresy that has ever been, but I don't understand where to go from here. I can't change the fact that I was born when and where I was born. I can't change the fact that God has gifted me in the ways He's gifted me. And I certainly don't mean to suggest that I'm some sort of amazing musician, but I am willing, and able to my own extent, to serve God. This seems like rambling at this point, but I really appreciate anyone who wants to continue on in kindness to reach a higher level of clarity about this topic. Is anyone able to take my inadequately expressed words here to help me gain an understanding of how to live as a creative person in today's Church?
    Thanked by 4DavidOLGC CHGiffen LauraKaz Xopheros
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    This is a very rough recording I put together quickly last night to give an idea of the type of music. I have also created some chaplets and I'm working on some litanies. I prefer to pray with music, and most recently I put music to the Chaplet to the Holy Spirit by now St. Elena Guerra.
    Copy of Psalm 1.mp3
    927K
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    Here's a transcription of the refrain, and some observations:
    image
    MP3  (computer-generated audio)
    1. The vocal range is not very broad: just from A to D, and having a range that spans an octave or less is helpful to the congregation. On the other hand, the range is low, which might make this difficult to sing, even for a lot of men. The fact that the vocal notation is all below the staff can serve as a clue.
    2. In the verses the range is broader, about an octave and a half -- which makes it more challenging for the soloist -- and it's lower, going down to a low E: I got the impression that even you seemed uncomfortable singing that low note.
    3. The piece is a fast waltz, at 190 beats per minute, and the feeling is light and playful, which are not bad qualities in music, but this is a psalm about the good man who is like a tree: steady and peaceful. So I'd recommend a calmer approach.
    4. The rhythm of the accompaniment is repetitive. The ear needs to hear some variation. (Of course, that probably reflects the quickly made sample recording.)
    5. Only two chords are used, which makes the accompaniment not very appealing. Also, there are some clashes between the melody and the accompaniment that you can avoid by using some additional chords.

    As an example, here's a rearrangement that keeps the pitches of the melody, but changes some other things:
    image
    MP3 
    1. The meter is now 4/4: more steady, less playful.
    2. Here three additional chords are used. They help to make the piece more interesting, reduce the occasions when the sung note is not in the accompaniment, and they give a sense that the piece is going somewhere, at least briefly, and then returning home.
    3. Sometimes the chord changes happen twice in a measure, and sometimes the chord remains steady for 2-3 measures. This variety in "the rate of harmonic change" creates contrast.
    4. A note about the second MP3 file: I made it at 140 beats per minute instead of the 128 indicated in the score; I decided 128 was too slow.
    5. If I knew how to make the simulated audio represent a strum occasionally instead of a plucked chord, I'd use that too fairly often, as another element to improve the accompaniment.
    6. I didn't do anything about the relatively low range; I'll leave that to you to consider. You might transpose the whole thing up to the key of B-flat or even C, perhaps.

    I hope this gives you ideas about ways to expand the toolkit you are applying when writing music.
    Thanked by 7irishtenor Andrew_Malton CHGiffen canadash … Expand
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,851
    I'm not sure about 'four feet good; three feet bad', but I am curious how the congregation would know when to come in: do you visually cue the refrain ( I do agree with Chonak that it's well fashioned for repeating by ear, if a bit awkwardly pitched)?
    The problem I see or rather hear is that the prose verses are all made to fit the same tune, so we end up with "He is like, a, tree; / plant-ed by … streams of water."
  • Xopheros
    Posts: 27
    @CMunro11 "I'd like to understand how existence works in a world where, obviously, people used to create things that have been passed down, but nothing is able to be created now."

    Please don't confuse the opinion of some church musicians with canon law or even with the general practice in the church. Throughout history, new music was created for use in catholic liturgy, and it often included assimilations of the contemporary styles that were then en vogue outside the church. The controversy what actually is (not) appropriate is equally old. In the 16th century, e.g., "parody masses" about popular secular songs were wide spread and criticized in extreme cases, or the "Dona nobis pacem" of Haydn's "organ solo mass" (1770) was criticized for being too operatic. Interestingly, I am not aware of any criticism of Monteverdi's application of the secular madrigalesque style of about 1600 to sacred music, although it must have been appalling for contemporary traditionalists. That was in Venice, though, where it could raise fewer eyebrows than in, e.g., Madrid ;-).

    Today we have a wide variety of musical styles utilized in the catholic church and this is a good thing, in my opinion. What is most appropriate for a Benedictine monastry (complicated medieval chant sung by the monk/nun community in Latin) can be problematic for some ordinary parish, or what is most appropriate for Westminster Cathedral and the Vatican might be unfit in rural Africa. Adaption to the local circumstances was explicitly encouraged by the Second Vatican Council as "varietates legitimae" or "enculturation".

    There is thus no reason why you should feel discouraged to contribute to the welath of liturgical music. If I understand the example you posted correctly, it is meant as an antiphonal psalm recitation with an antiphon (refrain) first sung by the cantor, then repeated by the congregation, followed by verses sung by the cantor with the refrain regularly interspersed. It is an established liturgical form and the music is appropriate, although you should ponder the suggestions by @chonak, especially with respect to the voice range of the refrain. Maybe it is also worthwhile to check with a listener that text comprehensibilty of the verses is not too much hindered by some long notes and pauses inmidst a sentence.


    Thanked by 1CMunro11
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    complicated medieval chant sung by the monk/nun community in Latin)

    Could we please just stop spreading the lie that Gregorian chant is too complicated for the laity? It really isn’t, especially compared to the modern music in hymnals.

    It’s a matter of taking the time to learn that which is unfamiliar and doesn’t create warm fuzzies.

    Thanked by 6IanW OMagnumMysterium AnimaVocis MatthewRoth … Expand
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,516
    It depends what you mean by 'Gregorian chant'. The Ordinary of the Mass is fairly accessible to an average person, but very few are capable of picking up a Graduale Romanum and singing an average Proper from it after a few minutes running over it. That has always been professional music. Never mind laity, what does it take to train clerics to sing it?
    Did our congregation (of 100) sing Asperges I well today, no though they hear it once a month and have the notation. Would they have sung Salve Regina strongly, yes.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    Thank you @Xopheros and @chonak (I hope it tags you...not sure if I'm doing it right).

    There were 3 chords in my psalm version, but I often leave part of a C chord in my G chord. I'm definitely not technical enough to remember which notes I'm picking though. I play by ear mostly. I have not heard from the congregation that the songs are too low, though Alto is my easiest section to sing from. I used a capo though, so I could always just move it up a couple frets.

    I definitely appreciate the advice about the music. I wish I had the ability to write music. I used to be able to do that and if I could take music theory again I would be thrilled. Alas, I'm too broke for comprehension at this point seeing as my husband has recently moved to long-term care in a home here in Canada. Our "social safety net" is not particularly functional so I'm struggling. I hope to attempt my hand at a Catholic prayer YouTube show of sorts. Similar to Matt Walsh and Brett Cooper style except all about prayer and liturgical living instead of politics. My husband, before he lost the use of his hands, had purchased a microphone and camera, so I'd like to give it a try. Then I will record some of the chaplets and litanies I've been setting to music.

    Another Psalm I wrote new music for was Psalm 93 which I recorded with my son. I did not share it with the congregation because I was a little rushed with all the music that week, but I did play it as a prayer with our prayer group later in the week and it was also well received.

    I guess my main goal is to offer what I can in the most beautiful way for me. If I was confident at leading chants I might be able to do that. I am working on learning some Latin chants especially as well. I've mostly memorized the Salve Regina because we pray along with with President-Rector, Fr. Paul Hoesing, and the seminarians at Kenrick-Glennon Seminary on YouTube every morning. There is a lot to learn when you don't grow up in the Catholic Church. I wish I could stop the world for a while and just learn the things I need for music and life in general, so I don't miss so much time, but I just keep trying my best with what I've got, and over time I think there is a lot of improvement. I look forward to Heaven when we are all united in one perfect song!

    @chonak, if you feel like writing this music out for me as well, I certainly won't complain!
    2024_11_23 Psalm 93 Mack and Mom_2.mp3
    841K
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 466
    It depends what you mean by 'Gregorian chant'. The Ordinary of the Mass is fairly accessible to an average person, but very few are capable of picking up a Graduale Romanum and singing an average Proper from it after a few minutes running over it.


    The average person isn’t expected to pick up a Graduale Romanum and sing an average Proper from it after a few minutes running over it. The Church even says that. That being said, there are people who can sing, have some minimal musical education who can learn how to sing the chants out of the GR.

    Speaking for myself personally, when I joined my Latin Mass Choir and Schola (I’m a female choral tenor, so I sang all the the chant propers in the schola out of the Liber from Day 2), my only musical background was 6 years of piano lessons, 6 years of trumpet in a marching/show band/solo festival competitions, 7 years of oboe in school band and private lessons, a few years of private lessons in bass guitar and drums, and years of singing punk rock music in my car while out driving.

    I couldn’t sing Solfege (I’m still not fluent in it). I just happened to have a strong musical ear, could read music, had decent sight reading skills, and a strong competent tenor whose tone I could mimic and blend with. We spent hours practicing the propers for each Sunday outside of our polyphony choir practice. My first Triduum, there wasn’t enough time to go through all of the chant propers and everyone else was fluent in them so I was allowed to sight read them. I sight read almost all of Good Friday’s and all of the Easter Vigil’s chants. I wasn’t some strong super chorister. I just put the work in and showed up for practices. I later on took the initiative to join an educational based choir to further develop my skills because Canon Law said it’s a requirement to develop our skills if we’re in some sort of ministry.

    Now I sing in a professional level volunteer chorus that performs along side a professional orchestra, but I had to work and put in the effort to get there. Don’t join the parish choir if you’re not going to show up, practice, and put in the work.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Postings on this forum represent the views of the individual participants and not necessarily those of the Church Music Association of America. (Some participants are not even members.)
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,604
    Today we have a wide variety of musical styles utilized in the catholic church and this is a good thing, in my opinion.


    IDK, when only one cardinal of the holy Roman church resident in Rome know the words to the antiphon Oremus pro pontifice, we have a problem.

    What is most appropriate for a Benedictine monastry (complicated medieval chant sung by the monk/nun community in Latin) can be problematic for some ordinary parish.


    There are two problems. There are a finite number of competent singers (at least one) and only so many hours in a day or week, and right now, a only slightly bigger number of people interested in chant period, so you run into the issue of parishes being very self-selecting but not always being able to advance for years and years, until you suddenly get new blood, even if the pastor wants to do the right things. It's probably true that one parish (maybe two can do Gregorian propers etc. all the time (never mind full polyphonic massses etc. too) and the rest may have to do the simpler chants for Benediction or devotions and content themselves with a four-hymn sandwich at Mass.

    Anyway, the norm is the sung Gregorian liturgy. We should be more careful, avoiding holding it as an unattainable ideal.

    Did our congregation (of 100) sing Asperges I well today, no though they hear it once a month and have the notation. Would they have sung Salve Regina strongly, yes.
    I admit that our people sing the simple tone of the Salve the best, followed by the Asperges, the mode 3 Tantum ergo…but because they are regularly exposed to the entire Gregorian repertoire (we have sung Mass at least weekly with the full proper and ordinary, Vespers and Benediction, and at least occasionally we include Gregorian pieces at regular weekday Benediction where otherwise we use DUGUET and ST. THOMAS, on Thursdays per annum that is) giving them notation helps, and they will try unfamiliar things. I'm hoping to get more people more fluent in the notation (and the men into the schola) by the end of the year.

    And yeah, it's a little annoying that my pastor doesn't want to abandon O Salutaris (I would do Rorate caeli in Advent, Ave verum after Christmas…I don't know what else the rest of the year tbh) so I'm stuck trying to figure out the best of the Cantus Selecti repertoire…so then people clearly don't feel as comfy with our seasonal melodies

    and I would add more chant if we could (the Tu es Petrus, the Oremus pro antistite nostro, some of the litanies…).

    and yes I realize that this is a terribly minor inconvenience. How lucky and blessed am I. But that's just it. We went from a mix of Latin and English to the TLM with some Rossini propers and a few Gregorian ordinaries to full propers except for a few days. Then we added Vespers. After that came the tract for the I Sunday of Lent; we're excited to sing that again this year, three years running.

    Everyone can do it, I think, or at least every diocese can do it. There is still an upper limit, IMHO.
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    Regarding putting the work in, @SponsaChristi , I think you're missing the main issue for some of us. We don't have a choir. There are no "competent tenors whose voice I could mimic" for me to learn any of this from. I am the leader around once per month and it's just me and the congregation. Even if I started leading all the proper chants, I would have to learn them completely on my own, and even then the rest of the congregation would only have once a month to get used to it. It is what it is. I'm confident that The Holy Spirit makes good use of our efforts.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    If you would like to get familiar with the sound of chant, the main CMAA web site has demo MP3 recordings for all the pieces in our book The Parish Book of Chant, and you can download a PDF copy of the book too, so you might find it interesting to try out the style.

    One place to start would be with some of the chants for Our Lady, or chants in honor of the Blessed Sacrament. Any of those could be a suitable extra piece to perform after Holy Communion, while the priest is completing his tasks at the altar.

    With Lent coming up, you can look ahead to Holy Week and learn the "Ubi Caritas", which is perfect as the Offertory on Holy Thursday. Once you've learned it in Latin, you can also find an English version, and sing them alternating verse by verse.

    Also, some of the Mass ordinary chants are easy and pretty, like the Kyrie for Mass XI.

    If any of your fellow cantors would like to join you, 2 or 3 people would be enough to sing these pieces with a fine sound.
    Thanked by 4CMunro11 CHGiffen LauraKaz OMagnumMysterium
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    @chonak I didn't even realize there was a CMAA web site. Thank you for letting me know! I don't know how I found this forum, but it wasn't through that.

    On the note of learning new things, does anyone have an idea where one could study Christian Aestheticism and whether there are, or what kind of, jobs there are that would use this type of education? What kind of programs are out there for learning about the True, the Good, and the Beautiful, and is there a way to make a living in that pursuit?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    I don't know about those, but there are free Music Theory materials and courses on the net:
    https://www.pianoemporium.com/7-free-music-theory-websites-we-recommend/

    (And I've added links on my previous comment, to show where the various items are on the main CMAA site.)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CMunro11
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,963
    I actually did write out a score for your second piece, CMunro11, but for now I think it's better for you to put more time into performing some of the existing psalm settings that people have recommended above. It's understandable if you want to contribute your own psalm settings, but they'll be more refined compositions when you have learned more theory and have become more familiar with other composers' works. At the outset, we all have to keep the training wheels on.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • CMunro11
    Posts: 9
    Thank you for the link to the theory stuff. I will definitely try to put some of that into practice!
Add a Comment