Mandating vernacular only in a diocese
  • Don1868
    Posts: 1
    Hello I was wondering if anyone was aware of any past instances of a bishop mandating that only the vernacular be used at all parish Masses in his diocese.

    For example, if there are several parishes in a diocese that have a Sunday Mass (Novus Ordo) with a sung Gregorian Ordinary setting, plus some proper chants and choral music setting Latin texts, but the rest of the Mass (readings, orations, etc.) are in the vernacular. Has anyone been aware of past attempts to curtail the use of Gregorian Chant in Latin and other sung Latin texts in an entire diocese in favor of vernacular-only music at parish Masses?

    Thank you!
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,529
    In Baltimore the Archbishop, Cardinal Lawrence Shehan forbade any use of Latin in 1967, as soon as a complete English translation of Mass was approved! I have lost my link to a copy of the decree, and do not remember whether that included music.
    There was a discussion on the forum of a ban on music in latin in one of the Ontario dioceses a few years back.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 342
    In my previous diocese, when the new translation of the missal was introduced around 13 years ago, there was a directive not to sing Latin Ordinaries (except at the TLM) for one year so that the people would get accustomed to the revised texts. I don't know whether it also applied to Masses celebrated primarily in Spanish, Vietnamese, etc. I know of an archdiocese that currently requires a written request, including an explanation of the rationale for the request, from any priest who wants to celebrate the novus ordo publicly either in Latin or ad orientem (even if in the vernacular), which raises some questions. What exactly does it mean to celebrate Mass in Latin? Does it mean every word of the Mass in Latin, just the canon, just the Ordinary, or just a "Sursum corda" or "Dominus vobiscum" here and there? Does that archbishop mean to exclude singing of the Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and anything else in Latin, or do the directives only pertain to the parts said by the celebrant alone? And why should one need to explain to one's Ordinary the rationale and seek his permission for following options allowed, even directed, by the rubrics, GIRM, and Vatican II?

    Chicago had a similar decree to the one a_f_hawkins mentions for Baltimore. I think it specified that Gregorian chant in Latin was no longer to be sung for Mass! You can probably find it online with the right search terms. It would be another 20 years until the formation of the FSSP and ICK.

    Your diocesan office of worship would be the place to check for local restrictions and permissions. My current diocese has no liturgical music regulations beyond those of the universal Church and whatever has been approved by the bishops' conference.
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  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,529
    The discussion I was remembering was in 2018, here : https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/15905/hamilton-diocese-liturgical-instruction-gathered-into-one/p1
    The link to that document no longer works, the current version seems to be from 2022, at : https://hamiltondiocese.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Gathered-into-One.pdf this encourages congregational music. A few items in Latin, one Latin chant Mass, Salve regina, In Paradisum ..., appear in the Canadian hymnbook and are therefor approved, no propers from the GR (unless perhaps for offertory as a choir item).
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,984
    When I was DoM in Wyoming, the bishop banned Latin in the diocese after I had just taught the congregation to sing Gloria VIII for Easter morning Mass. I was informed on the Monday after Easter Sunday. They called me into the parish office and also told me I was using a new hymnal which they handed to me on the spot, and they had circled the 80 hymns that I was allowed to use at mass. I thumbed through the entire hymnal in about 7 seconds, watching all the pages go by, stood up and said, “OK”. They were stunned. The deacon said, “we thought you would quit!” I said, “Why would I do that?” and walked out of the office.
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  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 357
    I have long thought it would be good if some enterprising grad student or the like could compile the various diocesan decrees implementing the post Vatican II liturgy in the late 60s and early 70s. It would probably entail digging through diocesan archives and maybe newspapers.

    Wasn't there some sense then that the old Mass had to be suppressed lest people vote with their feet for the old?
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  • Diapason84
    Posts: 107
    But, but, didn't Bugnini of blessed memory say that the people "wanted" the new Mass?
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,250
    FWIW, my experience and memory of the time was that, while people differed in details, overall, they overwhelmingly preferred it to the old Mass. We did have a well-known traditionalist chapel in the area, and most people scratched their heads over why bother with that. (Humanae Vitae was a much more common trigger for dissidence and disaffiliation.)
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  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 356
    Here's an article from NCR documenting the situation in Baltimore c. 1966. It certainly suggests that bishops interpreted Vatican II as requiring the widespread suppression of Latin in the liturgy. But it is interesting that the issue here seems to be allowing an "all-Latin" liturgy.
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  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 756
    Nearly all Catholic hymnals here in the US, from the mid 1840s till around the 1960s contained a mix of English and Latin hymns. At St. Mary's in Akron, Ohio singing Latin hymns in the Ordinary form was a cherished tradition. In fact from the late 1970s until 2005, we celebrated the Ordinary Form in Latin. It was not offered every Sunday but once a month and only at one mass. We did very little chant, we use Latin Mass settings for example Mass in G by Theodore Von La Hace, the offertory and communion hymns were generally Latin, the opening and closing hymns were taken from the missalletes.

    However more to your point, various dioceses throughout the US, banned certain hymns, many in the vernacular, banned hymn books, choral works, etc. I covered this in some detail in my HYMN OF THE MONTH series on my website. https://www.motherofmercycatholichymns.com/o-cor-amoris/
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  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,202
    In the Archdiocese of Atlanta, the present archbishop has incurred that no priest celebrate a Latin liturgy (orations, canon) without his permission. While communities (like mine) sing in Latin, the priest cannot say the canon in Latin or his parts of the Mass. He cannot also celebrate ad orientem without the AB's permission. However, I know for a fact that all of these rules are ignored on a regular basis. The rule is "what the Archbishop does not know won't hurt him." These rules do not apply to the FSSP or a certain diocesan tlm.
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  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,438
    In the Arch-Diocese of Galveston-Houston we've not had to worry about Episcopal rulings or autos da fe toward pruning the wings of Latin chants, and polyphony, et al. to bring the Church into line with a 'Vatican Two' that wasn't and isn't Vatican Two. A goodly sprinkling of churches and chapels (including UST) have Latin Mass offerings and no one gets bent out of shape over them. However, most, as one would expect at this time, don't.

    Cardinal di Nardo loves music and always sings the greater part of his masses. I have only once heard him sing Latin and feel certain that he has no bias against it. It would seem that the good cardinal remembers his Latin well. At Walsingham a few years ago we had the requiem of our founding pastor. Both Cardinal di Nardo and Archbishop Fiorenza were present in choir. We sang the mass in English according to our Use, but the choir sang the complete propers in Latin in accord with Fr Moore's request. As I sat behind Cardinal di Nardo in choir I could not help but hear him as he sang quietly and from memory along through the complete Dies irae!

    The early Sunday mass at Walsingham is sung with a Gregorian ordinary in Latin. It is well attended and has a dedicated congregation who sing very well all the Ordinary of the mass, plus the propers are sung in Latin chant by a cantor.

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  • GerardH
    Posts: 528
    This whole post feels like it's looking for trouble in bad faith. It is one thing to raise and discuss an individual ruling; it is another to go asking for examples, unless the expected scarcity of examples is meant to bolster an argument that these pronouncements are vanishingly rare. It just feels to me like looking for reasons to complain.

    It is a sad thing that any such mandates have ever existed. Rejoice and be glad that they are not widespread, and slowly but surely are disappearing.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,984
    Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. 7 Be ye not therefore partakers with them. 8 For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light. 9 For the fruit of the light is in all goodness, and justice, and truth; 10 Proving what is well pleasing to God:

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For the things that are done by them in secret, it is a shame even to speak of. 13 But all things that are reproved, are made manifest by the light; for all that is made manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith: Rise thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead: and Christ shall enlighten thee. 15 See therefore, brethren, how you walk circumspectly: not as unwise,
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,000
    My 2¢:

    If a diocesan office is considering doing this, they are acting expressly in contradiction to Sacrosanctum Concilium:
    § 36. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.

    § 54. Steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.

    § 116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.


    And GIRM ¶41 which reiterates SC §36.

    If the official instructions for saying Mass tell us to be using Latin, and you're trying to forbid it, "you're doing it wrong."
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