Mystic Modern: the music of Charles Tournemire
String Quartet Wedding Prelude
  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    My fiance's friends (mine too, now) have offered to play as a string quartet for our wedding (for free). It's four siblings who studied at Julliard. I'm marrying a cool guy with cool friends. But I digress.
    What pieces would anyone recommend we request? It will just be the 30 minute prelude (the rest of the music will be a capella; the choir is also working for free and is learning Beibl's "Ave Maria" specifically for our wedding). I'll probably ask for a repertoire list from the quartet but I'd be interested in everyone's input in the meantime. The wedding isn't until June so there's plenty of time. Thanks!
  • GerardH
    Posts: 504
    Musicians' choice is the correct answer. Let them play from their standards.
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 459
    Just a heads up, the Beibl Ave Maria is too for weddings to sing as it’s written with all the repeats and endings. It will require someone directing who is good at estimating time.
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  • Reval
    Posts: 189
    If I were you I would ask for their repertoire list and then choose pieces that are contemplative in style. I would not assume that the quartet knows anything about the Catholic Mass, or what is appropriate prelude music for a Mass. Is this Latin Mass, or just a regular parish Mass?
    Thanked by 2youngcatholicgirl mmeladirectress
  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    I would not assume that the quartet knows anything about the Catholic Mass

    It's not a Latin Mass, but the entire quartet is Catholic and two of the musicians are regular members of the choir at the parish. But yes, I would like to at least know ahead of time what they're playing (I won't even get to hear most of it, if any, which is a pity).
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  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    As to the Beibl, it's for after Communion when we give flowers to Our Lady, so the length isn't so much of a concern but thanks for noting that so I can bring it up with the director. Of course we don't want to drag things out; most of our guests will be Protestant or families with several children (I hope they bring the kids!), plus it starts at noon, so everyone will probably be hungry by then.
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  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 549
    As to the Beibl, it's for after Communion when we give flowers to Our Lady, so the length isn't so much of a concern but thanks for noting that so I can bring it up with the director.


    If there were ever a liturgy where the timing should be flexible, it is your wedding (unless it's celebrated in the main parish weekend liturgy, which is also ok). Why would it be a problem to not have something happening every second of the Beibl? Of course, I'd ask the same about a weekend parish liturgy, and love when a priest is supportive and just sits quietly until the music is finished.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen youngcatholicgirl
  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    Thank you, that's a great point. To quote my fiance, "I'd kneel in front of a bunch of people for 6 minutes if that were my soundtrack." Hopefully the music can help us (and everyone else for that matter) pray as long as it lasts, which is what all the music is supposed to do in the first place.
    And yes, I love it when the music is allowed to be what it's supposed to be, and not just something to fill up space while the priest is doing something else.
  • Magdalene
    Posts: 21
    I wouldn't worry about everyone else. Our wedding started at 11:00, so ended at lunch time. My husband's family and friends are not catholic and we had probably 20 kids mostly under the age of 5 at our wedding. We had a long meditation hymn after Communion, multiple priests, a deacon, a seminarian who was our altar server, incense, religious sisters in habit in attendance, everything we could muster as a non-TLM wedding. The priest who gave the homily was a good friend, so it was extra long! We got the most compliments, awe, and wonder from the non-catholics. They'll know beauty when they experience it.
    Thanked by 3youngcatholicgirl CHGiffen teachermom24
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,223
    Just to correct a misspelling: It's Biebl, not Beibl.

    Franz Biebl :Ave Maria (Angelus Domini), sung by Chanticleer and Cantus in a joint concert in Minneapolis.
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    NB. I was seated at the right of front row center for this memorable concert, and both Chanticleer and Cantus are very special ensembles.
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 459
    The Biebl Ave Maria, when sung as written with all the repeats is approximately 7.5 minutes. It’s not actually an Ave Maria, but rather it’s the Angelus being sung polyphonically. The actual Mass part of the Mass isn’t that long. It’s not about you. The music isn’t supposed to delay the Mass.

    I recall a long line of penitents unable to go to confession because a Nuptial Mass was way too long for the afternoon time slot and ran into the parish’s scheduled Saturday afternoon Confessions. The cause? The couple didn’t use the parish’s Music Director/organist and allowed their music to drag out the entire ceremony for 2.5 hours. It wasn’t even a Traditional Latin Mass.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,338
    A 150-minute wedding Mass would be very difficult to sit through under the best of circumstances
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,172
    CHG

    My first introduction to the Biebl was over 45 years ago, in Old Cabell Hall, the UVA Glee Club (featuring its countertenor section) under Donald Loach, at the annual Christmas concerts during first semester final exam period. I loved that they also included the piece as the encore to the Finals concert the night before Final Exercises each May.
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,223
    Liam

    I was at that UVA Glee Club concert, too, and it was the first time I heard the Biebl, as well.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,109
    what a great thread!!!!!!

    >> But yes, I would like to at least know ahead of time what they're playing (I won't even get to hear most of it, if any, which is a pity).

    maybe they have practice or other audio recordings which they could share with you?

    For myself, not taking away from their professionalism or talent in any way, it would help me a lot to hear beforehand.

    I hope that after this wedding is over,
    you can come back and share with us how it went :-)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 202
    I've heard the Biebl sung without the Angelus texts, and without all the repeats. A responsibly abbreviated version might be a possibility.
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  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 661
    The music isn’t supposed to delay the Mass.


    So.....no polyphonic ordinaries then? Or nice melismatic ones from the Kyriale? Postludes? Melismatic Ite?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,539
    I think we can all understand that there’s a difference between a motet so long that you risk the priest sitting down and the polyphonic ordinaries which are maybe double the length at most of the equivalent chant. (Credos are an exception but you can easily omit that anyway.)
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 661
    I do agree with you, for the record. But, what I quoted tends to be the same mentality which results in psalm-toned tracts and graduals, that sort of thing, which is truly unfortunate.
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  • OMagnumMysterium
    Posts: 303
    Once, I was MC for a wedding (Solemn Traditional Latin High Mass) and the choir was doing the Biebl Ave Maria. The priest had finished reading the Communion antiphon, and as the choir made a brief pause between the Ave Maria and one of the solo verses, he assumed it was finished so he went to the center to continue. by the time he got there they had began singing again, so he stood there for a minute or two, greatly irked. Once they were about to start the next verse, he cut them off, loudly singing Dominus Vobiscum and forcing them to move on.

    Looking back, I do laugh at that moment.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,172
    "I've heard the Biebl sung without the Angelus texts, and without all the repeats. A responsibly abbreviated version might be a possibility."

    IOW, just the part after the third versicle of the Angelus.

    That said, it's the repetitions that make the contrast of the high counterpoint of "Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis" work.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • AgnusDei1989
    Posts: 18
    It's fairly typical (at least for the weddings where I've sung it) to do only the actual Ave Maria parts of the Biebl, going straight to the final ending. It may lose a bit of drama, but it's plenty effective as it is. (And fairly long already!)
    Thanked by 2youngcatholicgirl Roborgelmeister
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 459

    So.....no polyphonic ordinaries then? Or nice melismatic ones from the Kyriale? Postludes? Melismatic Ite?


    This was what caused the issue in the first place. Polyphonic Masses were getting too long and delaying the priest. There’s a difference between singing something like the Mozart Coronation Mass at Mass and singing something such a Byrd’s Mass for three voices. Even then, we still never sang a polyphonic Credo. We sang a chant version and sang it at a good pace so it didn’t drag on.

    I’m not anti-Biebl, but we need to be reasonable here.
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  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    Just to correct a misspelling: It's Biebl, not Beibl.

    Meat culpa. I tried so hard to remember how to spell his name and I'm half German descent on top. I'll never forget now!

    It's fairly typical to do only the actual Ave Maria parts of the Biebl, going straight to the final ending.

    I've never personally sung his Ave Maria and am not familiar with the repeats and endings. I heard it in person for the first time at the Vatican several years ago and don't recall how it was done (my mom utterly loves the piece, which is part of why we're using it). I'm really only familiar with it as done by Voces8, which is under 5 minutes. They have the first line of the Angelus, then the Ave Maria and that's it.
    All that to say, we will not let it go on for 7 minutes.

    I hope that after this wedding is over,
    you can come back and share with us how it went :-)

    Most certainly! All I talk about now is the planning, for a few months afterwards I'll probably want to talk about how it went! ;)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,223
    ... familiar with it as done by Voces8 ...

    Voces8 performance of the Biebl is splendid!
    Thanked by 1youngcatholicgirl
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 459
    For those who aren’t familiar with the full version of the Biebl Ave Maria, here’s Voces8 performing it in full. The only difference is they leave the sopranos and altos out until the second time.

    https://youtu.be/BUkY1tPgq94?si=uwFT7jwswgvuk9IC

    One caveat with this piece is that it has different arrangements for various number and mixes of voices up to 7 different voices. The closest arrangement I can find for a string quartet is one for organ and string quartet here:

    https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/en/product/ave-maria-biebl-22269480.html?srsltid=AfmBOorH1-szZDvFKieBEZ-pJOp42G0dAyX1bDewiONEUmhSn95N9q1Z

    You may have to pay someone to arrange it for a string quartet. You’ll also have to pay for four copies since it’s under copyright and can’t be photocopied.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,539
    A wedding, even the largest that I’ve seen, is not the right time for the Biebl, except as a choral postlude or something. But we got it on Sunday, after we did the verses (2 verses=singing the proper three times), and there was still time, as we have around 200 people and quite a few communicants on Sundays. Then the choir did it again for BVM of Lourdes (NO) with about 50 to 70 communicants (virtually the whole congregation was of adults), and we only sang the proper once, without verses. There was essentially no time left over, and no time spent seated. Or not more than I felt was dragging things out.
  • youngcatholicgirlyoungcatholicgirl
    Posts: 46
    This is the "edition", if you will, of the Biebl we plan to use (if we even have the bit of the Angelus at the beginning -- we may not). I wouldn't think 4 minutes is too long.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycAtH_b7PnI
    Also, all the music will be a capella outside of the prelude, so we won't need to arrange it for strings.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,338
    For whatever it's worth, I say go ahead and use the Biebl during the Nuptial Mass if you want to. The Novus Ordo has a lot of flexibility built into it. Most of think probably too much! However, it's a lovely and impressive piece of music with lovely lyrics. Enjoy the music and your wedding day!
    Thanked by 3youngcatholicgirl LauraKaz CHGiffen
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