Octet music for Sts. Peter & Paul
  • Hi everyone! I haven't participated here in many years but I lurk here to find resources and rep suggestions quite often. I've been coming up against a wall recently and thought I'd actually post for once.

    I often put together small professional pick-up groups for Latin Masses in southern California. I sing and conduct, and the other musicians are generally colleagues I've worked with while singing in other places, many of whom sing with LA Master Chorale and other similar professional groups in the area. (I currently sing as a chorister with LA Opera and have a staff singer position at a relatively prominent Catholic church, as well as subbing in other places.) The groups are typically octets; we have a two-hour rehearsal before the Mass to put everything together. Rep generally includes a full polyphonic Mass (recent ones have been Victoria's Missa Ascendens Christus in Altum and Missa O Magnum Mysterium) and a couple of motets, and the rest is filled out by organ. One on a part is typical; we've done pieces like Bruckner's "Christus factus est" and some of Stanford's Latin motets, as well as selections from Byrd's Gradualia and lots of other Renaissance polyphony. We typically do all of the chants as well, but I've moved towards having them sung by soloists rather than with the whole group, as pro classical singers typically don't have training in chant, even if their degrees were specifically in early music. (Too early?) It also saves rehearsal time, honestly. I typically try to strike a good balance between interesting repertoire that may not be sung very often, while also being reasonably achievable within the allotted rehearsal time (and some individual prep time, as I provide music ahead via email) considering the sheer volume of music. We tend to mostly do a cappella music, which started because the original organ at the church was horrible, but I also just really enjoy it and it makes the most of the acoustics of the church, which are excellent.

    So, with these forces in mind--I've been coming up a little empty on music for the solemnity of Sts. Peter & Paul. It's the patronal feast for this church so I'd like to do something special. At the moment I'm planning on Pearsall's "Tu es Petrus." I had been thinking about using one of the Victoria Masses I've done before (I tend to program his Mass settings often because they're both musically more interesting to sing and easier to put together--Palestrina can be less interesting, Lassus can feel very exposed, etc) but am open to other suggestions, and I'm also having trouble finding another motet and/or polyphonic gradual. I'd be grateful for any suggestions. Thank you!
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Gradualia II has 6vv propers, but if you need something for all 8 there's Philips.
  • Thank you for these. I've used a good deal of Gradualia settings (just used Oculi Omnium last night for Corpus Christi, along with Palestrina's Ego Sum Panis Vivus and Tallis' O Sacrum Convivium), but I'm not sure that AATTBB will work well for this group--maybe if I have sopranos and altos paired with each other?

    I am pretty attached to the Pearsall setting of Tu es Petrus now and probably won't replace it with a different setting of the same text. I did search for recordings of the Clemens non Papa and ended up finding Guerrero's setting of the same text which I also like a lot, plus the Lobo Mass setting parodying the motet. I don't see it on CPDL though, sadly!

    I've been playing with the idea of using motets common to other feasts: all-purpose saint ones, maybe something from different commons, but I'm not sure which ones would be appropriate, if any, and I'm also thinking something more specific to the feast is nicer considering it's the patronal feast for the parish.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 411
    I have the Gradualia settings transposed up for SSATTB if that is useful for you.
  • Oh! Yes, that absolutely would be!
  • GerardH
    Posts: 411
    Please see attached. Not the best-looking engraving, but serviceable. The Alleluia occurs out of place (it's the same music as the Communio; when the Tu es Petrus is sung at Communion, omit the Alleluia at the end).
    Thanked by 1Clara Chung
  • DL
    Posts: 72
    Here’s a vote for Missa Papae Marcelli as demonstrating superbly a certain Romanitas for the feast day (it is SATTBB so your upper voices would have to agree to play nicely together) and I’d say it pairs well with the dreamy Pearsall (which is a contrafactum of a setting of a gloomy madrigal-adjacent text of the early 17th cent.). The Palestrina is also a good listen as well as a good sing.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Gerard, thank you for the PDF! It looks easy to read without thinking too hard about it, which is pretty key for these pick up groups. (I guess I always prefer 4/4 if I can find it, but after all these years I've gotten used to 4/2.)

    DL, I was actually considering Missa Papae Marcelli already! It's a little intimidating just because it's the iconic and most famous polyphonic Mass setting, but I have a really solid group this time around, especially in the male voices so I'm thinking if I do it, this is the most solid group for it. I do love it and have sung it a handful of times before.
  • DL
    Posts: 72
    Go for it! We had it for Trinity Sunday the other week (one a part like you) having had it on the mental to-do list but never getting round to programming it. Would you also sing the Creed? I take your point about Palestrina, but we also had Missa O Sacrum convivium for Corpus Christi which was a new one on me and which I enjoyed greatly.
  • I would definitely want to use the Creed as well. I usually include a chant one just in case we run out of time during rehearsal, but I really enjoy using a whole Mass setting, plus the motet it's based on if it fits the occasion. (O Quam Gloriosum for All Saints, O Magnum Mysterium at Christmastime, Ascendens Christus in Altum for Ascension, etc.) I'm considering finding something along those same lines for Assumption this year (if you have any ideas for that as well). I do sort of cycle through a few of the same Mass settings over and over, but am trying to branch out to take advantage of the increasingly excellent caliber of singers I have at my disposal.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • DL
    Posts: 72
    Tallis Salve intemerata and the Mass that goes with it. For an alternative take on the English sound (if you are not wedded to the Mass/motet relation and don’t mind considering the 20th century) Imogen Holsts’s Mass in A minor would pair with Howells, Salve Regina.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    I am so glad to hear other people are singing Polyphonic Creeds, the ones we have sung are just so beautiful.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    Excellent comments all above.

    I have a skeletal SATB choir often missing the femur, I learn, on my way to Mass in Canberra, Australia. Great!

    But, FWIW, I discovered on CPDL a lovely SATB polyphonic version of a sequence "Ecclesiam Vestram" for Sts Peter and Paul by an anonymous early 16th century composer. Very Flemish, strong shades of Josquin's 'Ave Christe'. From the Jena Codex of 1510.

    You probably all know it, so forgive if my ignorance interrupts, like Lance-corporal Jones in "Dad's Army".

    Anyway I attach pdf and mp3 (I rendered that with brass in Sibelius) of my version for Thursday week (June 29, Feast of Sts Peter and Paul -we're an FSSP parish) in which I've eliminated some (lovely) verses so the liturgy isn't delayed excessively.

    BTW, if anyone here has access to the original chant sequence, I'd love to know.

    Hope the links work. H.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    @Hugh
    For St Peter and St Paul
    Adam of St Victor has the following sequences,
    Gaude, Roma, caput mundi (Day)
    Roma Petro glorietur (Octave)

    Sarum
    Lauda Jocunda melos turma persona

    and here we have it, a Notker sequence so the first verse being unique would be chanted,
    Notker
    Petre summe Christi pastor
    There is also a setting of this by Heinrich Isaac,

    Chant
    Cantus
    This version should be easy to set.
    This version would be fun.
    Another
    and another
    Plenty more to choose from.
    Analecta Hymnica entry
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen