Latin rite hymnals with Greek printed in Greek script?
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    Have there ever been Latin rite hymnals (Graduale Romanum`s, Liber Usualis`s, etc.) that write the Greek words (e.g., of the Kyrie, Hagios o Theos) in Greek (not Latin) script (e.g., Κύριε, Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός)?

    something like this in GABC:
    (c4) Ἅ(g)γι(fe)ος(fgffe) ὁ(c) Θε(d)ός.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
    (c4) San(g)ctus(fgffe) De(cd)us.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
    (c4) Ἅ(g)γι(fe)ος(fgffe) ἰσ(c)χυ(d)ρός.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
    (c4) San(g)ctus(fgffe) For(cd)tis.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
    (c4) Ἅ(gh)γι(g)ος(ixhg/hiHG'g) ἀ(f)θά(g)να(h)τος,(h!iw!jvIHiih.0) (;) ἐ(g)λέ(hjjvIH')η(g)σον(hg/h_gz) ἡ(fd)μᾶς.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
    (c4) San(gh)ctus(ixhg/hiHG'g) Im(f)mor(g)tá(h)lis,(h!iw!jvIHiih.0) (;) mi(g)se(hjjvIH')ré(g)re(hg/h_gz) no(fd)bis.(fg!hvhg.) (::)
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    Not directly relevant to your question, but some Mass chants have been translated into Greek at St Denys in Paris.
    https://sicutincensum.wordpress.com/2018/10/05/the-greek-mass-of-st-denys/
    and
    https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2019/10/more-on-greek-mass-of-st-denis.html
    Even there it was thought necessary to provide the singers with a parallel transliteration.
    I have never seen anything on the situation in those parts of southern Italy where Greek was spoken (and Catholics use the Byzantine liturgy), nothing that I have read about the musical traditions there or their books.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    Another thing I noticed (related to Greek pronunciation):
    Why is ἐλέησον transliterated as eleison?
    Eta (η) would seem to be an "h" or "e" (as in ε) sound.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    I believe that's because it's transliterated into Roman script according to Latin pronunciation.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἐλέησον
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    And some detail hidden in that Wikipedia article
    Pronunciation

    (5th BCE Attic) IPA(key): /e.lé.ɛː.son/
    (1st CE Egyptian) IPA(key): /eˈle.e̝.son/
    (4th CE Koine) IPA(key): /eˈle.i.son/
    (10th CE Byzantine) IPA(key): /eˈle.i.son/
    (15th CE Constantinopolitan) IPA(key): /eˈle.i.son/
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    Geremia, have you looked at the Universalis app? I know that you can get the parts of the Mass in English and in Latin and the Gospel in Greek. I think it is also available in other languages
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    Nunn, Elements of New Testament Greek:
    Ēta Η η ē Like ea in “bear.”
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    That's NT era, but not later Antiquity when the Roman rite was being regularized.
  • joerg
    Posts: 137
    Eta like "bear": That's the classicizing pronunciation which was introduced by Erasmus of Rotterdam. Previously it had since Hellenistic times always been pronounced like "beer".
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Geremia
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 353
    Have there ever been Latin rite hymnals (Graduale Romanum`s, Liber Usualis`s, etc.) that write the Greek words (e.g., of the Kyrie, Hagios o Theos) in Greek (not Latin) script (e.g., Κύριε, Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός)?


    Certainly not official chant books like the ones mentioned. If it is to be found anywhere, I would expect to find it in hymnals targeting grammar school students in 19th c. Austria/Germany.
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