Small triumphs
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    The choir of which I am a member sang Hassler's Missa Super Dixit Maria (minus the Credo) for Christ the King, this past Sunday. It took us a remarkably short time to learn it, considering what else we have learned previously and how long those have taken and how well we had learned them.

    What other triumphs can the membership record?
    Thanked by 2tomjaw rich_enough
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,703
    Over the Summer our choir learnt the following,
    Byrd 4 part Mass which we sang in September, we did not sing the Credo, that will wait till next time.
    The Missa Iste Confessor, Palestrina which we sang in October (with the Credo)
    and in November will will sing Victoria's Requiem for 4 voices.

    We sang the Missa Super Dixit Maria, Hassler with Credo for the Feast of St. Raphael, and we should sing the Missa O quam gloriosum, Victoria with motet this Sunday.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I got up this morning.
    Thanked by 11Carol trentonjconn Chrism tomjaw ServiamScores CHGiffen tandrews Elmar NihilNominis francis John_F_Church
  • Carol
    Posts: 847
    No triumph around here. Our choir disbanded during covid and has not resumed. Why this occurred involves a lot of human flaws and it's sad. We scraped together a quartet for Christmas, Easter and the Triduum last year. No discussion yet about this Christmas, so I'm guessing there will be something similar this year or maybe just a cantor.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Stimson,

    I read recently in an FSSP mailing that we should OFTEN remember to thank God for all of His benefits, including the gift of existence.

    Carol,
    Rome wasn't built in a day, so maybe the rebuilding is already in progress?

    Thanked by 1Carol
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    We've finally gotten the point that Fr. Samuel Weber's propers are (usually) not difficult for the choir to learn and sing. Four part harmony for most hymns is quite doable with a few weeks practice. Now we're on to learning polyphony and that is going to be a long process.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Towards the end of last season we began singing the credo in English. We are one of (if not THE only) churches in the diocese to sing the creed (every week). Another parish has since shown interest in using my transcription, but I don’t know if they have implemented it.

    I also recently got the church to chant the offertory antiphon to a simply psalm tone via pointed text. Not as many people were singing as I would have otherwise hoped, but there definitely were voices downstairs attempting it, so I’m going to see about doing this more often.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw StimsonInRehab LauraKaz
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    TCJ,

    Depending on where your parish has begun, this is an accomplishment of varying size. How enormous is this accomplishment>

    Serviam,
    Bravo.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    TCJ, we are reaching a similar stage with Fr. Weber. We’ve done more/less the complete cycle 2-3 times now. I have something like 180 various Fr. Weber chants recorded on my YouTube channel, if they are of service to you and your choir, fyi. Here’s the playlist, which gets added to regularly as I fill in more holes each cycle: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk71GctqoFYzo3_skuiJGc3wh_1ts5nWH

    My whole YouTube channel actually started with me making practice tracks of these chants for my choir. Funny how one thing leads to another.
    Thanked by 1TCJ
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I had some real triumphs in the big suburban parish where I used to serve. A new “beige” pastor came in… I didn’t wait around. I am in an amazing place now, so things turned out great. Unfortunately, what took twelve years to cultivate in my old place has pretty much been dismantled in about six weeks.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores LauraKaz
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Unfortunately, what took twelve years to cultivate in my old place has pretty much been dismantled in about six weeks.
    I’ve lived through this horror. I had only been there 2 years, but it only took 2 weeks with a new pastor for the liturgy to utterly disintegrate. Glad you’re happier at your new gig.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Thanks. The difference is night and day.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    TCJ, we are reaching a similar stage with Fr. Weber. We’ve done more/less the complete cycle 2-3 times now. I have something like 180 various Fr. Weber chants recorded on my YouTube channel, if they are of service to you and your choir, fyi. Here’s the playlist, which gets added to regularly as I fill in more holes each cycle: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk71GctqoFYzo3_skuiJGc3wh_1ts5nWH


    One of my choir members found your channel a long time ago and pointed it out to me. When he mentioned the YouTube channel, I recognized the name. It's a valuable resource, so thanks.
    Thanked by 1ServiamScores
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    TCJ,

    Depending on where your parish has begun, this is an accomplishment of varying size. How enormous is this accomplishment?


    Nine years ago, the parish had a choir that sang in unison, I believe. Then they were entirely disbanded for a year, so when I came there was nothing. Most of the members don't read music, none of them had ever seen a square note until we got Ignatius Pew Missal. We've had a lot of hiccups on the way such as shutting down for a year and a half, long-term absences, retirees, people moving away, etc. I'd say it's going well, but it's certainly taking longer than the five-year plan the pastor had in mind.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,044
    2 baritones, an alto, 2 adult soprani, a high schooler and a middle schooler or two. We barely do 3 part music, Half of them can't make rehearsal for good but unfortunate reasons. But this is a first outing for this piece. It's not perfection, but I'm going to count it as a win. http://jeffreyquick.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Walkiewicz-Tantum-20221023.mp3
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores CHGiffen
  • Drake
    Posts: 219
    I've been very blessed that the women's schola at my parish has been singing a lot of my music of late. The director has had me arrange several of my four part pieces (such as Oculus and Super Flumina) for three parts, and continues to ask for more new music. The full choir also sang my Ave Maria setting for the first time for the feast of the Assumption. Last, but not least, my daughter made her First Holy Communion last Sunday (Christ the King in the 1962 calendar), and the women and girls sang two of my pieces at Communion - that brought tears to my eyes.

    The parish is vibrant and growing, with over 2,100 in attendance now across six masses on Sunday. We are so very blessed.
    Thanked by 3ServiamScores CHGiffen Carol
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 72
    I am the music/choir teacher at the school of a very "Spirit of Vatican II" parish. The parishioners and kids are used to all of the music for Mass being played on piano. To avoid losing my job, I have the music for every school Mass include at least one OCP standard along with some more traditional hymns. However, at last Wednesday's choir practice, I decided to try playing one of the hymns on the organ instead of piano. The kids absolutely LOVED it and begged me to learn another hymn on the organ as well. At the end of the practice, they all crowded around the console to get a better look.
    Thanked by 7Chris Garton-Zavesky CHGiffen DavidOLGC ServiamScores Jeffrey Quick Carol tomjaw
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Laura,
    This is excellent news, and definitely a triumph, although I'm not sure I'd call it "small"!
    Thanked by 4LauraKaz ServiamScores tomjaw CHGiffen
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Had the same thought, Chris. Not small at all.
    Thanked by 3tomjaw CHGiffen LauraKaz
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Serviam, Laura,

    Nothing so irks the "Spirit of Vatican II" crowd as children who like Latin, the Organ, traditional liturgies.
    Thanked by 3Nathan_the_Organist LauraKaz DavidOLGC
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 72
    Sadly, these children are still terrified of anything in Latin. If I even mention the language they balk.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Will they attempt a Kyrie? Might be an entry point to demonstrate that singing in another language won’t kill you.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • LauraKaz
    Posts: 72
    Might be worth trying, but the problem is the pastor insists I use the same Ordinary as the rest of the parish. If the Kyrie is sung, the pastor will chant it in English and the congregation will repeat.

    This parish has historically done the Jubilate Deo chants during Lent, but last year they switched to the ICEL chants for Lent "because of that letter Pope Francis put out." (This irks me to no end...)

    For what it's worth though, I have gotten them to sing a modern version of Ubi Caritas (Rosania, OCP) with the refrain in Latin. And one of my classes is singing a song in Hebrew for a Thanksgiving program.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    It’s worth reminding your pastor about Francis’s remarks to the Italian conference of church musicians this past year, and the fact that Paul VI promulgated Jubilate Deo after the council, and that the modern missal still presumes the older chant books are being used, and… and…

    The suppression of the older rite has little bearing, technically speaking, on the fact that these elements are supposed to be retained in the new rite.
    Thanked by 2LauraKaz DavidOLGC
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    Sadly, these children are still terrified of anything in Latin. If I even mention the language they balk.


    Back when I taught, I started them on Parce Domine for the yearly Passion play. There was no mentioning of Latin prior to showing it to them, just "This is what we are going to sing. It's short, it's easy, and you get to do something adults don't know how to do!"

    They loved it.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Chris Garton-Zavesky LauraKaz
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    You could say, too, that this is how people did it years ago.....
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    I’ve also tried the route:

    “Who is your favorite saint?”
    “Saint Francis of Assisi! … St. Claire! … St. Antony!”
    “Did you know that St. Anthony used to sing this SAME song?”
    Thanked by 5Chris Garton-Zavesky CHGiffen Carol a_f_hawkins LauraKaz
  • Carol
    Posts: 847
    I used the common round of "Dona Nobis Pacem" when I had an afterschool choir "club" and the group loved it. It was a good way to get them used to hearing harmony. We have sung "Agnus Dei" ICEL chants for a long time here even though the rest of the OF Mass is ICEL chants in English. We do not sing the Creed in any language and have rarely sung it in my 50+ years in this parish.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    We do not sing the Creed in any language and have rarely sung it in my 50+ years in this parish.
    Very few places do. It’s exceedingly rare.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Carol,
    We do not sing the Creed in any language and have rarely sung it in my 50+ years in this parish.

    That sounds like an opportunity.

    You can't claim that you're going backwards, but forward to a new and brighter future.

    Serviam,

    Do you mean that singing the Credo is rare in OF land, or in an even broader context?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    Rare in OF land
    Thanked by 1Chris Garton-Zavesky
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 254
    @LauraKaz

    Ugh!

    There is nothing in Custodes Traditionis which prohibits the celebration of the mass in Latin if it is celebrated according to the Missal of St. Paul VI. Indeed, given the provisions of canon law and the wish of the Council that steps be taken so that the people can say or sing those parts of the mass together in Latin which pertain to them, I doubt that an ordinary could ban the use of Latin in the mass.

    Even Cardinal Cupich recognized:

    "Accompaniment may also mean creatively including in the Mass reformed by the Council elements which people have found nourishing in celebrating the earlier form of the Mass, which has already been an option, e.g., reverent movement and gestures, use of Gregorian chant, Latin and incense, and extended periods of silence within the liturgy."

    https://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2021/11/04/the-gift-of-traditionis-custodes/
    Thanked by 1LauraKaz
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    Chas, one thing I missed for years was periods of silence at Mass. Why does there have to be music at every pause in the Mass? Especially after communion. Why after everyone has gone to communion and the priest or deacon is cleaning up does the choir need to be singing one more song? Or why does the piano need to be playing one more tune? There is definitely something to be said for sacred silence.
    Thanked by 2ServiamScores Carol
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I think there's a middle ground between mute spectating and liturical pep sessions. As Cardinal Sarah pointed out, even the music used in Mass should be of the type to encourage interior silence.
    Thanked by 4tomjaw CHGiffen ServiamScores Carol
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Chas,

    Is the permission from the Cardinal Archbishop to be taken as a small triumph, or a pyrrhic one?

    What do you make of this, also in the Pray Tell posting?

    No one would think of arguing that the earlier forms of the Code or the Catechism could still be used
    when, in fact, most people I know who use a Catechism for their children use the now superceeded Baltimore Catechism.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,721
    BHC—I am also a big believer in silence at mass. We always have some silence before or after communion, and if the liturgical action going on appears as though it will end relatively quickly, I will refrain from improvising during that time. (Of course, you can improvise quietly in a way that encourages hat “interior silence” mentioned by Stimson.). We also have no preludes or postludes during Lent, and restrained organ during advent and lent.
    Thanked by 1John_F_Church
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,939
    For reference, these are the norms in the GIRM re music during the Communion rite in the OF, emphases added:

    86. *While* [note: not after] the Priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion Chant is begun, its purpose being to express the spiritual union of the communicants by means of the unity of their voices, to show gladness of heart, and to bring out more clearly the “communitarian” character of the procession to receive the Eucharist. The singing is prolonged *for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful*. However, *if* there is to be a hymn after Communion [see no. 88 below], the Communion Chant should be ended in a timely manner.

    Care should be taken that singers, too, can receive Communion with ease.

    87. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, there are four options for singing at Communion: (1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another musical setting; (2) the antiphon with Psalm from the Graduale Simplex of the liturgical time; (3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) some other suitable liturgical chant (cf. no. 86) approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. This is sung either by the choir alone or by the choir or a cantor with the people.

    However, if there is no singing, the antiphon given in the Missal may be recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a reader; otherwise, it is recited by the Priest himself after he has received Communion and before he distributes Communion to the faithful.

    88. When the distribution of Communion is over, if appropriate, the Priest and faithful pray quietly for some time. If desired, a Psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the whole congregation.
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