Transposing Music?
  • jbmusicrose
    Posts: 40
    So... there's an upcoming funeral with a guest cantor (contralto voice) who wants all of these hymnal (GIA) pieces in lower keys and expects me to transpose them into sheet music. 1) How common is this? And more importantly... 2) Am I missing any of the latest tech/software out there to do this easily and painlessly without having to mouse click note for note using Sibelius or Finale?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,152
    If you have a score in Finale, you can transpose it simply by changing the key signature. For example if the piece is in F major and you want to transpose it down to D major, simply click on the first measure, select the key signature tool from the menu bar, change the key signature from F major to D major (three upward clicks on the slider bar), and check transpose all notes down (the usual default it up). Click apply, and you're all set.
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  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    What Chuck said.
    But if the cantor isn’t having to play an instrument, unless it’s in a clef they find confusing why do they need their sheet music transposed?
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  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Charles,

    Thank you. I learn new and interesting things about my Finale program all the time.

    JBMusicrose,

    When cantors need music transposed, I think the simplest thing to do is give them a new starting pitch. If you need to transpose the piece for accompaniment purposes, that's different. The choir of which I am a member regularly sings Sicut Cervus, by Palestrina, in A-flat, but the score is in F. Mostly, people in the choir don't worry.

    Corinne,

    Indeed!
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  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    You don't disclose what the pieces are.
    Many companies will offer on-demand pieces in a 'high', 'low', and 'medium' vocal format.
    Your piece may be one such song.
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  • jbmusicrose
    Posts: 40
    I've already checked but they're not offered. I suppose the only way is to score note for note in Finale. Chuck -- I don't have the pieces scored. I'm going to have to have to go to the hymnal and score out the entire song (accompaniment included for this woman) which will take hours. I was hoping for a better/easier way that I wasn't privy to. CCooze -- I guess it's what they do in the city (Old St Pats specifically) so guest cantors expect it up here. If only these entitled prima donnas realized that not every music ministry has more than one staff member leading it...
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,372
    I believe Finale used to come with a music scanning program, which has become a separate app called SmartScore. It's $199 for the Songbook version, but it claims to offer a speedy solution to transposition needs.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I think it is more reasonable to get a different cantor who can sing in the key for which the music is scored. Otherwise, the cantor should pay you $50 per piece to do their transition for them. Perhaps the onus should be on the cantor to create the new score?

    What are the titles?
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  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 303
    I agree, this is ridiculous to feel that you must rescore these things for a singer. Does the singer have absolute pitch and struggle to read something in the wrong key? Otherwise, what does it matter? Tell them to get over it.

    Also, nobody does this, not in the city or nearby. (That's my area) Perhaps for an entire choir or transposing a piece from ATTB to SATB or SSAT. But not for a singular cantor. That's just ridiculous.
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  • TCJ
    Posts: 968
    They're called guest musicians for a reason. You drop them off the invitation list.
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  • davido
    Posts: 876
    I transpose stuff for people, but all I do is turn a knob…
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  • Carol
    Posts: 849
    Can you create just a melody line in the new key and then write chords on top in the new key? You would end up with something more rudimentary for accompaniment probably, but if it is a simple hymn it could get you by. Is the transposition for the singer or you?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,726
    There are programs that can scan your music and transpose it for you. They aren't perfect, however, so you need to double check that nothing gets messed up.

    It's for situations such as these that I believe that having a transposer dial on an organ [if it has an electric action] is not a bad thing. Purists will lambaste me for not waxing poetic about using your God-made intellect to do it perfectly on the fly in your head, but being realistic, most of us can't do that, or can't do it very well.

    Also, I think your approach here can be determined by what the situation is and what the pieces are. Many hymns can be found on hymnary.org and you can find XML files to import into your notation software, saving you oodles of note input. Some of us here have lots of files on hymns already, so if you need something specific, perhaps we can already help you.

    If they are common things like the Schubert Ave, I can send it to you transposed right now. If this is just a person who can't sing run-of-the-mill hymns in the common keys, perhaps they shouldn't be cantoring...

    Also, I've had limited success telling my choir I've transposed things when in reality I haven't. Just *thinking that the piece is transposed is enough to fool some people. (This usually only works when it is a half-step type of situation... but I'm not transposing from E to Db for you. Sorry, Charlie.)
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  • Liam
    Posts: 4,950
    (Humorous aside: Ask a horn player to accompany. Being an F instrument, training includes transposition as much as a tritone.)
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  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    If the guest cantor wants the music transposed, it should be on them to do the transposition. I had a cheat sheet on transposition that I downloaded from the Easy Music Theory site. That cheat sheet is no longer available from the site. Even with the cheat sheet, it is a cumbersome and time consuming project.
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    What is the piece (or, are the pieces) that this cantor so desperately needs transposed? I agree that, if the situation is so dire that you should find a new cantor -- you should find a new cantor. Said person isn't (by chance) either 1) related to the parish secretary; or 2) trying to appear extremely musical?
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,726
    If the guest cantor wants the music transposed, it should be on them to do the transposition.
    I confess, it is rare that it has happened to me, but I've always been irked whenever someone says, "I need it in XX key." Well, laaa dee daa. Find it yourself. (Of course this is inherently dangerous, because you never know what they will end up handing to you... and often way too late to learn well. Pick your poison, I guess.)
  • TCJ
    Posts: 968
    Also, I've had limited success telling my choir I've transposed things when in reality I haven't. Just *thinking that the piece is transposed is enough to fool some people. (This usually only works when it is a half-step type of situation... but I'm not transposing from E to Db for you. Sorry, Charlie.)


    I will often have the choir practice something in a pitch that is higher than I intend. Then the usual pitch seems easier. Another trick if someone complains that a piece is too high, switch to practicing another better-known piece which has an even higher pitch. Almost guarantee they will sing it just fine.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,935
    I transpose stuff for people, but all I do is turn a knob


    Even pipe organs have transposers now.
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  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,025
    This is why I have a surcharge if a family wants a friend or relative to sing anything at a funeral. Prior to adding the surcharge, I got hit with many unexpected demands, extra preparation time and vocal coaching that I wasn't paid extra for when a friend or relative sang something. There's also a surcharge for requested music not in the hymnal or not on the approved music list. I would consider a transposition to be music not in the hymnal unless it's an easy transposition.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,935

    Also, I've had limited success telling my choir I've transposed things when in reality I haven't. Just *thinking that the piece is transposed is enough to fool some people


    I will probably be punished for this in the hereafter, but I had a diva soprano who always insisted the piece in question was too high for her. I would play around enough on the keyboard to confuse her pitch perception, then play the piece in the key where it was written. She never knew.
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  • CGM
    Posts: 683
    I agree with the commenters above:
    — It is reasonable for a cantor to request music in an unusual key.
    — However, providing transposed sheet music is considerably different from simply playing a piece in the requested key.
    — If the cantor demands a transposed score, then the cantor should provide a transposed score. Otherwise the cantor should be satisfied that the accompaniment is in the required key, regardless of what music he/she is singing from.

    If you're talking about Old St. Pat's in NYC, presumably the Manhattan-based singer does more than cantor in churches. In other areas of music (musical theater auditions, for example), the singer is expected to provide the music for the accompanist in the appropriate key. For a singer with an unusual tessitura (such as a contralto), one might expect that the singer would have already assembled such a book...
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  • Liam
    Posts: 4,950
    It occurs to me to mention that it would be unusual to transpose anything that the congregation is expected to join in singing by more than a full tone, and that any cantor would be expected to pitch to what the congregation is expected to sing, not the other way around. The congregation is the rudder of pitch, not the cantor, in that context. Doing otherwise is...ugly.

    For non-congregational pieces, it makes sense for the singer to provide transposed music.
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  • Nathan_the_Organist
    Posts: 434
    The cantor shouldn't need transposed music. I have really good relative pitch, and I will ask the organist to use the transposer for hymns (high D's are hard on Sunday morning), and I do fine reading in a different key than I'm singing. I understand why the organist may want transposed music (such as no transposer on the organ and cannot transpose in their head). I think the cantor is being unreasonable.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 392
    Does she actually have a contralto voice? I do and I just sing hymns an octave lower. Tends to work just fine.
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  • lmassery
    Posts: 405
    If the music is in D or E you can get away with playing it in Db or Eb without too much trouble. Just change the key signature in your head and tell her it s a whole step lower haha
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