Latin text for wedding motet
  • Skladach
    Posts: 19
    I've sketched an arrangement of a classical motet replacing the text with Ephesians 5:31-32: "Sacramentum hoc magnum est, ego autem dico de Christo et ecclesia. Propter hoc relinquet homo parentes et adhaerebit uxori suae in carne uno." = "This is a great sacrament; I am speaking about Christ and the Church. Therefore a man will leave his parents and cling to his wife in one flesh." Slight modifications were made to fit the text to the existing music: 1) the two verses appear in reverse order, 2) "patrem et matrem" is condensed into "parentes" [corrected], and 3) the words "et erunt duo" ("and they shall be two") are omitted before "in carne uno". Please comment frankly: Is the revised text correct Latin that makes sense? Is the text appropriate for a Nuptial Mass? Thank you for reading this post.
  • It means well.
    I really strenuously urge you not to condense patrem et matrem to "patres"

    I also discourage the elimination of "et erunt duo".
  • MarkB
    Posts: 700
    Well, it is pride month.
  • There is a typo - magna has to be magnum to agree with the neuter sacramentum.
    Thanked by 1Skladach
  • Skladach
    Posts: 19
    Thanks, CGZ. In Spanish padre + madre = padres, but in Latin pater + mater = "parentes". Thanks C_C for pointing out the typo.
  • Just to be clear: there's nothing wrong with allowing "fathers" to stand for "fathers and mothers" in the proper case. We say "the Founding Fathers", and we say "our forefathers", and "Faith of Our Fathers" On the other hand, since many modern societies are trying to do away with the terms "father" and "mother" (preferring, for example, "Parent 1" and "Parent 2", it's essential to retain the proper, sensible, reality based vocabulary for the proper rendering of St. Paul.
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 913
    I was always under the impression that Faith of our Fathers referred to the faith of priests, not merely our parental fathers, and found the failure to understand that by the Protestants who bowdlerized the hymn in their variations to be extremely funny.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,747
    Actually Faith of our Fathers was written to commemorate Catholic martyrs from the period when the Church of England was established by Elizabeth I & Henry VIII. Protestants indeed had a go at twisting and altering the original text to suit their beliefs (and non-acceptance of Mary).
    Thanked by 2Skladach tomjaw
  • I'll have to rethink that example.
  • Skladach
    Posts: 19
    PROGRESS REPORT: By making a few rhythmic adjustments to the Renaissance motet, I've managed to set all the text of Eph 5:31-32 to it, except for one syllable ("et") and with "patrem et matrem" > "parentes".
  • Skladach
    Posts: 19
    The "Faith of our Fathers" discussion is interesting; I suggest continuing it under the category of Hymnody.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • >>> Well, it is pride month.

    Pride... as it is said, the devil's own sin, yes?
    in any case, the first of the seven deadly sins.
    Thanked by 2canadash tomjaw
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,470
    @mmeladirectress. shhhhh.... an 8 year old in Toronto got sent to the principal's office for exposing these truths to his Catholic school teacher... we don't know who is reading this.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,616
    My website on pride et al.